Taking on the Sin of the World (Jesus Christ, Earth, salvation)

[Green Gaia]

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

I think it is well accepted that Adam was a type of Christ.

Umm... no. Even among those of us who do not subsribe to a belief in Jesus' divinity, do not hold the fictional character of Adam anywhere close to being in the same league as Jesus.

[Peace]

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

I think it is well accepted that Adam was a type of Christ. That whole first Adam last Adam thing. My topic then is why Adam ate the fruit in the garden. Did Adam, being a type of Christ, feel it nescassary to take on Eve's sin (her's being the only sin available and thus being the "sin of the world") and suffer death in a similar episode as Christ taking on the sin of the world and dying for our redemption? Did Adam's action point towards Christ on the Cross in much the same way as the law served as a schoolmaster?

From an Islamic perspective, both Adam and Eve were guilty, the blame is not on Eve but on both of them. Nobody tempted the other but it was satan who tempted them. However, God is so Merciful and so forgiving and He did forgive Adam and Eve.
Nobody can or will take on others' sins. Everybody is responsible for his/her own sins and will be brought up to account in the day of judgement. But whoever repents for his/her sins, s/he will find a loving forgiving God.

Peace

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by mormonman

God told them not to eat the fruit, but to repleinsh the earth. They couldn't reproduce in the Garden of Eden. They really couldn't follow one commandment w/o breaking the other. He also told Adam that he should "ceave unto his wife". If Adam wouldn't have eaten of the fruit he would have lived in the Garden forever, w/o Eve, thus disobeying that commandment also. On a side note it's funny how stupid Satan was. If he didn't get Eve to eat the fruit, Adam and Eve would have stayed in the Garden forever, ergo screwing up the plan of salvation.

Are you implying that because Eve Ate the fruit and that Adam hadn't they would be physically unable to conceive? Or is it that with Eve's banishment from the garden and Adam not that Adam would also have been barred from Eve?

Umm... no. Even among those of us who do not subsribe to a belief in Jesus' divinity, do not hold the fictional character of Adam anywhere close to being in the same league as Jesus.

Adam in no way had the attributes or divinity of Christ (please those who don't believe in Christ's divinity start in here) but was a "type" of Christ in that he "resembled Christ either in his actions or circumstance. that is what is meant by looking a scriptural figures as a "type." Joseph is looked at as a type of Christ in this same manner.

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by Peace

From an Islamic perspective, both Adam and Eve were guilty, the blame is not on Eve but on both of them. Nobody tempted the other but it was satan who tempted them. However, God is so Merciful and so forgiving and He did forgive Adam and Eve.
Nobody can or will take on others' sins. Everybody is responsible for his/her own sins and will be brought up to account in the day of judgement. But whoever repents for his/her sins, s/he will find a loving forgiving God.

Peace

So Adam only ate the fruit because he was deceived? Could you offer Koranic scripture for this?

[Evenstar]

I agree with michel, Dawny and Mike.... is this called been a sheep lol....

[Green Gaia]

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

Adam in no way had the attributes or divinity of Christ (please those who don't believe in Christ's divinity start in here) but was a "type" of Christ in that he "resembled Christ either in his actions or circumstance. that is what is meant by looking a scriptural figures as a "type." Joseph is looked at as a type of Christ in this same manner.

I can't see anything that the character Adam did that would support him being a Christ or a type of Christ (whatever that means).

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by Maize

Umm... no. Even among those of us who do not subsribe to a belief in Jesus' divinity, do not hold the fictional character of Adam anywhere close to being in the same league as Jesus.

Baha`i's believe that "Adam" ws the first Manifestation of God in the "Adamic Cycle of Revelation". Was Adam really His name? Who knows? But someone was first to bear the revelation that God is ONE, and creation is His. Later Prophets and Divine Manifestations are part of the cycle which includes Jesus Christ. The last of the Adamic Cycle was the Bab, and Baha`u'llah begins a new cycle of Revelation which will last a half million years - during that time all the Prophets and Manifestations will be in the shelter and line of Baha`u'llah.

Regards,
Scott

[Terrywoodenpic]

Originally Posted by Peace

Nobody can or will take on others' sins. Everybody is responsible for his/her own sins and will be brought up to account in the day of judgement. But whoever repents for his/her sins, s/he will find a loving forgiving God.

Peace

I would agree with that.

but like Michael, I do not believe in a factual Adam and Eve.

Terry__________________________
Blessed are the pure of heart, they shall behold their God.

[michel]

[quote=sandy whitelinger]Are you implying that because Eve Ate the fruit and that Adam hadn't they would be physically unable to conceive? Or is it that with Eve's banishment from the garden and Adam not that Adam would also have been barred from Eve?
I think the following is the best full explanation, if we are to accept the story at it's face value. The passage highlighted in red is pretty conclusive.
From:-http://www.catholic-forum.com/Saints/golden117.htm

God said: It is not good a man to be alone, make we to him an helper like to himself for to bring forth children. Adam supposed that some helper to him had been among the beasts which had been like to him. Therefore God brought to Adam all living beasts of the earth and air, in which be understood them of the water also, which with one commandment all came tofore him. They were brought for two causes, one was because man should give to each of them a name, by which they should know that he should dominate over them, and the second cause was because Adam should know that there was none of them like to him. And he named them in the Hebrew tongue, which was only the language and none other at the beginning. And so none being found like unto him, God sent in Adam a lust to sleep, which was no dream, but as is supposed in an extasy or in a trance; in which was showed to him the celestial court. Wherefore when he awoke he prophesied of the conjunction of Christ to his church, and of the flood that was to come, and of the doom and destruction of the world by fire he knew, which afterward he told to his children.

Whiles that Adam slept, God took one of his ribs, both flesh and bone, and made that a woman, and set her tofore Adam. Which then said: This is now a bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; and Adam gave her a name like as her lord, and said she should be called virago, which is as much as to say as made of a man, and is a name taken of a man. And anon, the name giving, he prophesied, saying: Because she is taken of the side of a man, therefore a man shall forsake and leave father and mother and abide and be adherent unto his wife, and they shall be two in one flesh; and though they be two persons, yet in matrimony and wedlock they be but one flesh, and in other things twain. For why, neither of them had power of his own flesh. They were both naked and were not ashamed, they felt nothing of the moving of their flesh, ne to refrain them as we now do, for they stood both in the state of innocence. Then the serpent which was hotter than any beast of the earth and naturally deceivable, for he was full of the devil Lucifer, which was deject and cast out of heaven, had great envy to man that was bodily in Paradise, and knew well, if he might make him to trespass and break God's commandments, that he should be cast out also. Yet he was afeard to be taken or espied of the man, he went to the woman, not so prudent and more prone to slide and bow. And in the form of the serpent, for then the serpent was erect as a man. Bede saith that he chose a serpent having a maiden's cheer, for like oft apply to like, and spake by the tongue of the serpent to Eve, and said: Why commanded you God that ye should not eat of all the trees of Paradise? This he said to find occasion to say that he was come for. Then the woman answered and said: Ne forte moriamur, lest haply we die, which she said doubting, for lightly she was flexible to every part. Whereunto anon he answered: Nay in no wise ye shall die, but God would not that ye should be like him in science, and knowing that when ye eat of this tree ye shall be as gods knowing good and evil, he as envious forbade you. And anon the woman, elate in pride and willing to be like to God, accorded thereto and believed him. The woman saw that the tree was fair to look on, and clean and sweet of savour, took and ate thereof, and gave unto Adam of the same; happily desiring him by fair words. But Adam anon agreed, for when he saw the woman not dead he supposed that God had said that they should die to fear them with, and then ate of the fruit forbidden. And anon their sight was opened that they saw their nakedness, and then anon they understood that they had trespassed, for anon their flesh began to move and stir to concupiscence. For before that they had eaten of the forbidden fruit, the movings were repressed and closed as in young children.

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

Adam in no way had the attributes or divinity of Christ (please those who don't believe in Christ's divinity start in here) but was a "type" of Christ in that he "resembled Christ either in his actions or circumstance. that is what is meant by looking a scriptural figures as a "type." Joseph is looked at as a type of Christ in this same manner.

I really don't understand the point you are making here.