Animals, a soul, and free will (Jesus, moral, Creator, Earth)

[HelpMe]

i said that every living thing is a soul, the almighty has given them life.this being a soul is not the same as having free will, this is given by the spirit which 'god' gives according to the 'bible'.

as pertaining to 'Isaiah 66:3-4'("But whoever sacrifices a bull
is like one who kills a man..."), i can only give the obvious answer that in the ancient 'biblical' times, animals were regarded higher, especially if they were another man's possession.it has never been ok scripturally to kill something for no reason.

Second of all, it doesn't need to be a bible based conversation simply because the bible may be a work of fiction.

if you say so?if you want to discuss the validity of the 'bible' then take it to the proper thread, this one was made to discuss animals as souls and free will.

Verses from the bible that show non-human animals having souls or spirits:

you obvisouly haven't even been reading along, because i have pointed out how scripture denotes souls as different from the spirit.

First of all, why do you always use the quotation marks on the word bible?

because i believe it should be called scripture, but if i refer to it repeatedly as scripture, many here may incidentally believe i am referring to another religion's works.


--S

[Feathers in Hair]

Originally Posted by HelpMe

well i quoted the 'bible' many times in my first post on this thread, something you've yet to do.keep in mind the first post of this thread(pah spoke of genesis), and give me reason why you think it should not be a 'bible' based discussion.


--S

You're quite right, and I apologize. I do not know your behavior "IRL," and I should not have said anything based on that. I have a bad tendancy to believe that, because I 'behave' the same online as I do "IRL" that most other people do the same. My comment was flippant, when I should not have been. As for second point, while I have studied the Bible most of my life, I am not a Biblical scholar, by any means. That doesn't make me a better or worse human being for it, but I prefer to let those who actually know their stuff duke it out, while adding in the bits I actually do know. And I'll have to check the notes, but I don't believe I ever said anything about it not being a bible-based discussion.

[Ardhanariswar]

what are all your definitions of soul and spirit and mind and body?

[Druidus]

The question of whether or not an animal (including humans) has a soul or spirit is moot. Those cannot be proven, no matter how hard we try. We can, however, show that different members of the same species will choose differently when given a certain scenario. What do you say about the two sign-language chimps? They taught two chimps to use the same sign-language. They then taught them each to use different tools then the other to reach a certain goal (in this case, food). They put them in different rooms, connected only by a window. Each side had different tools, tools that each chimp personally couldn't use, but the other could. The scientists observed through a 1-way mirror. One of the chimps went to the window and signed for the other to come over. When the other one did, they talked for about 5 minutes. Soon, they were teaching each other about the different tools, better then any human could have, because they can visualize the others point of view. Now they were able to get the food. They had learned to teach using language. If they had been re-introduced into the wild, they would have taught other chimps to use the sign-language, and soon, many chimps would, and they would develop their own variations of language. They have "innovation". The point is, we can communicate with them and they can tell us their emotions and feelings. To say they are anything but equal is terribly ignorant, blind and vain.

And from the womb of the void, who shall stem the blood tide?

[Mister Emu]

I have a question, to those who have done it, if it is not a religious secret or anything, what is the process that one goes through to share spirits with trees/animals while christian I know that other powers out there might not be evil even though not of God.

I would really like to expirience this melding of "mind" to see what it is like

[painted wolf]

my guess would be that we talk with spirits much the same way as christians talk with saints, angels and so on. As far as my faith goes the spirits were created by 'god' and so are just as much 'of god' as anything elce.

Wa:do

[Feathers in Hair]

I'll be happy to send you a PM, Mister Emu! It might take a certain amount of babbling, though, so please be patient!

[Mister Emu]

I'll be happy to send you a PM, Mister Emu! It might take a certain amount of babbling, though, so please be patient!

Thank you very much.

As far as my faith goes the spirits were created by 'god' and so are just as much 'of god' as anything elce.

Yes the spirits are of God, I never said they weren't.

[painted wolf]

sorry Mister Emu... "I know that other powers out there might not be evil even though not of God." confused me.

There are many ways to speak with spirits from simple meditation to complex rituals.

perhaps asking the folks that hang out in the 'paganism' area would help you find advice on this.

hope this helps some

wa:do