Animals, a soul, and free will (Jesus, moral, Creator, Earth)

[Ronald]

Originally Posted by pah

In Genesis, God created the animals, The questions I’d like discussed is whether this biblical God embodied the animals with souls and if free will was given, in the same period, to the animals. And finally, is sin, as spoken of in the Bible, attributable to animals if they do not have a soul and/or free will?

-pah-

Animals were created Nephesh just as man, nephesh is a living creature, both do not have a soul, but are a soul/nephesh.
Animals were created with instinct, a knowing, according to its species.
The only thing sin did to them is they also became destined to die.
Man being created in the image of Y-H-V-H has intelect and free will.

[Druidus]

I have medical records of a person who was dying of complications from AIDS with 14 days left to live who came from a hospice to receive prayer. Three days later he was totally healed. I have his medical records. I do not have other records but I have read others records who came to meetings with their doctors reports in hand proving the healing.

There's four things it could be then.

1. "God"

2. Innate human abiltity.

3. The AIDS virus just went in to remision, only to come back later, with him thinking he's healed.

4. The mind thought it was healed, and so, affected the body. The body pumped it's Immuno system up and defeated the virus.

Using the law of Occam's razor (the simplest, plausible explanation is usually right), I'd have to say it went into remission, as viruses often do.

Merging conciousness/ sharing energy with a critter is much the same as with an tree, except the resonation back is quite a bit stronger.

What do you feel when you do this? I feel a deep peace. I see from a tree's point of view, and I feel connected to the world. I grow immensly patient, and content. I haven't yet gotten the bird, because they see to fly away too fast.

I find it much easier if the creature is a 'totem' animal, since some part of its spirit is yours already.

I don't understand. What is a "totem animal"?

[Feathers in Hair]

Originally Posted by Druidus

What do you feel when you do this? I feel a deep peace. I see from a tree's point of view, and I feel connected to the world. I grow immensly patient, and content. I haven't yet gotten the bird, because they see to fly away too fast.


I don't understand. What is a "totem animal"?

When I'm with a tree, I feel the deep peace that you mentioned, that feeling of interconnected-ness. I also connect with the personal spirit of the tree. The 'conversation' you might have with a sapling is naturally quite different than that you might have with a mighty oak.

I should've explained what a totem animal is, my apologies! According to various traditions, the phrase might be used as 'power animal' or another phrase. Depending on the individual, one might have one or hundreds of these critters, which are usually a reflection of one's deepest self. They might also represent qualities which one possesses, or which Spirit is trying to remind one of the importance of. For example, a mentor of mine is most closely connected with the bear. Not only does he look like one, people say he gives 'bear hugs,' and make bear puns around him, even if they don't know that he's a shaman. That's because the bear spirit that he is is so much at the forefront of his being that people who don't know any better still recognize him for what he is.

In esoteric usage, a common way to walk, as a shaman (or any other type of spiritual traveller), is with a totem animal on each side. For example, when I'm doing 'spirit work', I walk with a fox to my right side, a spider on my left, and raven flies above me. This is because these animals (or their qualities, however one wishes to see it) resonate most closely with my soul. That which I am, my power animal, is what I tend to walk as.

I've found that the most easy way of discovering what your power animal is is simply looking around your room at home. Do you have pictures/ stuffed animals/ or books on a certain animal or type of animal? Normally, that's your subconsious trying to assert to you what you are. There are any number of other ways to 'discover' your animals, but I've found that's one of the easiest.
Also, one of the greatest things I've learned in my travels is that ones' power animal doesn't have to be 'real.' If you feel drawn to a dragon, a pegasus or another creature, trust your instinct! It isn't lying to you!

[HelpMe]

Originally Posted by Druidus

Actually, the bible clearly says they were given a soul. I was taught that they had one too, back in confirmation class (I used to be catholic).

unless you give book,chapter,and verse.your statement is null and void.

and given that you used to be a catholic, i mustn't hesitate to believe that you have been tought wrong.

but, given they are a 'soul' it is not improper to believe they were given themselves.they still have no spirit.i must apologize if this is rude, but personal claims do not outweigh the scriptures.

Originally Posted by FeathersinHair

I've found that the most easy way of discovering what your power animal is is simply looking around your room at home.

my power animal is a penguin

--S

[Feathers in Hair]

I pre-apologize for this. I normally am not an argumentive person, and dislike confrontation. I even promise to end this post by getting back on topic, really!

Originally Posted by HelpMe

animals don't have spirits(according to the 'bible')

"unless you give book,chapter,and verse.your statement is null and void."

Curses! It's looking like your argument is therefore null and void.

And, I fear, the fact that you used to be whatever you are right now, that means I mustn't hesitate to believe that you have been taught wrong. Truly sad, since I would've respected your opinion otherwise. Unless you were being sarcastic, and quoting "Fight Club", please consider communing with the spirit of the penguin. It traditionally means a return to playfulness.

To be back on-topic, I think we were discussing whether or not the God of the Bible embodied animals with souls, and not whether or not certain religions were more valid than others. I am sorry if I managed to pull us off-topic.

[Ardhanariswar]

"but I have never seen an animal do these things."

um, there are some dogs who can find cancer on the human body. dogs and cats in general help people, it makes them feel better. and laughter is the best medicine.

i think demonic spirits are just negative sprits. some are strong some arent. there are some spirits of the dead. that still remain on this earth because they are confused.

animals can see these. or sense them. my half aunt had a puppy who kept barking inslanely when she took him over this certain spot. this is india folks, 100 degree weather. and that spot was cold. not just physical, but you know, mental. just made you icky. and the dog would always bark at it. it would sometimes move.

later we found out that some person died a death there. creepy.

many dogs do bark at places where humans have no idea who or what is there. creepy.

[Druidus]

died a death

Died a death? I should hope so! It's a good thing he never died a life!

[HelpMe]

Originally Posted by FeathersinHair

please consider communing with the spirit of the penguin. It traditionally means a return to playfulness.

how well do you know me now?how playful am i not?tell me more about my behavior irl, plz.


--S

[HelpMe]

Originally Posted by FeathersinHair

"unless you give book,chapter,and verse.your statement is null and void."

Curses! It's looking like your argument is therefore null and void.

well i quoted the 'bible' many times in my first post on this thread, something you've yet to do.keep in mind the first post of this thread(pah spoke of genesis), and give me reason why you think it should not be a 'bible' based discussion.


--S

[Druidus]

well i quoted the 'bible' many times in my first post on this thread, something you've yet to do.keep in mind the first post of this thread(pah spoke of genesis), and give me reason why you think it should not be a 'bible' based discussion.

First of all, why do you always use the quotation marks on the word bible?

Second of all, it doesn't need to be a bible based conversation simply because the bible may be a work of fiction.

Why would your "God", equate the slaying of an ox to the slaying of a man if the ox wasn't an equal? Verses from the bible that show non-human animals having souls or spirits:

"To kill an ox is like slaying a man; sacrificing a lamb, like breaking a dog's neck." (Isaiah 66:3-4).

And God said, "