Infant Baptism and the Atonement (doctrine, churches, sinned, Christians)

[mormonman]

I, of course, don't want to offend anybody's religion, but doesn't infant baptism actually deny the Atonement of Christ? Infant baptism assumes that all men are born in sin and that to be cleansed from this original sin they must be baptized. Why would we be responsible for anyone else's sin anyway? The answer is that we're not. Christ's Atonement atoned for all sin, even Adam's transgression. Baptism, in the pure sense of baptism by immersion, represents the death of the old sinful person and the rebirth of the new person into the church of God. It also represents the death and resurrection of Christ. I would love hear your comments on this.

[Lindsey-Loo]

I don't believe in infant baptism either. In fact, I don't even believe in baptism at a very young age. Ithink the child should know what they are doing before they get baptized.I've heard a lot of stories about parents pressuring their eight-year-olds into getting baptized, or kids getting baptized just because their friends are. Infants don't know why are they are getting sprinkled (I didn't know congregations actually baptized infants) with water at all. It just makes them scream.

[michel]

Originally Posted by Christiangirl0909

I don't believe in infant baptism either. In fact, I don't even believe in baptism at a very young age. Ithink the child should know what they are doing before they get baptized.I've heard a lot of stories about parents pressuring their eight-year-olds into getting baptized, or kids getting baptized just because their friends are. Infants don't know why are they are getting sprinkled (I didn't know congregations actually baptized infants) with water at all. It just makes them scream.

I guess that's a fair point; I must admit that my wife and I had our children baptized at a young age, because 'It was the right thing to do' as we thought. God-parents were carefully chosen.

Much as I hate to admit it, it was because it was 'the done thing'; we believed we were doing right by our kids, until they were old enough to decide for themselves.....

[Linus]

Originally Posted by mormonman

I, of course, don't want to offend anybody's religion, but doesn't infant baptism actually deny the Atonement of Christ? Infant baptism assumes that all men are born in sin and that to be cleansed from this original sin they must be baptized. Why would we be responsible for anyone else's sin anyway? The answer is that we're not. Christ's Atonement atoned for all sin, even Adam's transgression. Baptism, in the pure sense of baptism by immersion, represents the death of the old sinful person and the rebirth of the new person into the church of God. It also represents the death and resurrection of Christ. I would love hear your comments on this.

Uh, oh. Scott won't like this one bit.

[James the Persian]

Originally Posted by mormonman

I, of course, don't want to offend anybody's religion, but doesn't infant baptism actually deny the Atonement of Christ? Infant baptism assumes that all men are born in sin and that to be cleansed from this original sin they must be baptized. Why would we be responsible for anyone else's sin anyway? The answer is that we're not. Christ's Atonement atoned for all sin, even Adam's transgression. Baptism, in the pure sense of baptism by immersion, represents the death of the old sinful person and the rebirth of the new person into the church of God. It also represents the death and resurrection of Christ. I would love hear your comments on this.

Infant baptism does not assume that all men are born in sin. We Orthodox deny the doctrine of Original Sin (as in, all men being born guilty of Adam's sin) and yet we still baptise infants. We do, however, also have a rather different soteriology from many western Christians and substitutionary atonement, and indeed the whole juridical view, is not a part of it. We do baptise by triple immersion (never sprinkling) and we do see baptism as death and rebirth in Christ, but it is by baptism that we enter the Church and thus have access to the Mysteries, particularly the Eucharist. We commune infants after their baptism and see it as much more than just a washing away of sin, though it is indeed this for those who are old enough to have sinned before being baptised. I must say that it always strikes me that refusal to baptise and commune infants is in effect to ignore Christ when He said to 'suffer the little children to come unto me'. For those who don't agree with infant baptism (and you're almost all certainly believers in substitutionary atonement which I have no great wish to discuss here), how exactly do you allow the little children to come to Him?

James

[jeffrey]

I agree with a lot of what James says. Makes sense.

The way I had always thought of this was when you Baptize your baby, it's stating that the parents will raise that child in a Godly way, and acknowledging the fact that the child is of God. Then when that Child reaches the age of reason, where he knows right from wrong, he/she should be Baptized again.

Hope this makes sense.

[jeffrey]

Let me also add, that I myself have been Baptized 3 times. Seems that everytime we change churches, they want to Baptize us in theirchurch, which I disagree with. It's like saying the other churches Baptism didn't really count.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by jgallandt

I agree with a lot of what James says. Makes sense.

The way I had always thought of this was when you Baptize your baby, it's stating that the parents will raise that child in a Godly way, and acknowledging the fact that the child is of God. Then when that Child reaches the age of reason, where he knows right from wrong, he/she should be Baptized again.

Such a baptism as you just mentioned has nothing to do with biblical baptism though, biblical baptism is about the washing away of sin and also signifies the death of the old man, and rebirth. It biblically has nothing to do with stating how you will raise your child. You could throw a "i will raise my child Godly" party and then if they child does grow up and understand sin and there need for Christ then let them believe and be baptized.

[James the Persian]

Originally Posted by jgallandt

Let me also add, that I myself have been Baptized 3 times. Seems that everytime we change churches, they want to Baptize us in theirchurch, which I disagree with. It's like saying the other churches Baptism didn't really count.

That wouldn't happen (assuming that you've ever been baptised in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit - in the correct form, as we would say) if you were to become Orthodox. That doesn't mean that your heterodox baptism would be accepted as valid, however. We tend to say that we know where the Church is but not where she is not. Therefore, if you were baptised using the correct form you would be accepted by Chrismation (roughly like confirmation) which is considered to fill the form with any Grace that might have been lacking (but not being God we can't say for certain whether it was or was not lacking). In effect we bring the heterodox baptism into the Church. As a rule, we don't rebaptise people because we believe baptism is, as the Creed suggests, a once only event.

James