Romans 2 (Jesus Christ, gospel, salvation, soul, grace)

[Aqualung]

1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, o man, whosoever thou art thta judgest: for where in thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest does the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgement of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man that judgest thm which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgement of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgement of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the works of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while acusing or else excusing one another; )
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision, which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost trangress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

I like verse one. It says that if I judge someone, I am condemned for it if I do those things. It says nothing about righteous judgement. Verse 3 says that you can't just blame others and then expect to be okay. That's a good thing to live by.

Verse 6 - You are judged by deeds, not by faith alone. So men, if their deeds were good, will get a good judgement.

verse 12 speaks of what dan terms as living up to the light you have. If you die without knowing Christ, why should you be judged with how well you lived up to christ's commandments? But if you did die with Christ, you will be judged by his standards.

I think the law they speak of in verse 14 has to do with the holy ghost. Even if you aren't christian, you can still feel the holy ghost, and can follow what he says to do.

The latter part speaks of not being a hypocrit in your judgements and doings.

So, those are things to debate, or you could pick something else...

[Aqualung]

So.... Nobody has anything with Romans 2? I'll go on to Romans 3 pretty soon if nobody has anything...

[spacemonkey]

I like verse one. It says that if I judge someone, I am condemned for it if I do those things. It says nothing about righteous judgement. Verse 3 says that you can't just blame others and then expect to be okay. That's a good thing to live by.

I think you miss the point, its not that you do the same EXACT thing, it just says that no one is without fault and therefore should not judge others.

"Judge not, before you're judged yourelf. Judge not, cuz you're not ready for judgement"

[Aqualung]

Originally Posted by spacemonkey

I think you miss the point, its not that you do the same EXACT thing, it just says that no one is without fault and therefore should not judge others.

"Judge not, before you're judged yourelf. Judge not, cuz you're not ready for judgement"

No, I completely disagree with that, but I don't know what we can debate with this . . .

[joeboonda]

Romans is so awesome, yet hard to understand all of it. In chapter one Paul shows that man turned from God and lived wickedly, even though they knew God for he reveals himself in our conscience and in the creation. Then he says in chapter 2 we are inexcusable, for "thou that judgest doeth the same things". Then in chapter 3, (skipping ahead, I know), he says we have all sinned, have all gone astray, and by the deeds of the law no man will be justified. Then he offers the good news in v24 "being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. On down he says where is boasting then, and I see why, for we receive salvation as a free gift, not by works. In chapter 4 in the beginning, God is basicaly saying he will not be a debtor to any man (4:4-5). At the end of ch.4 it says Christs' righteousness is imputed on those who believe in him, and in ch.5 it describes it as a free gift. I know I left ch.2, lol was just enjoying the read. How wonderful it is to know that God loves us so much! Oh, well, just my rambling thoughts, not really in debate mode or mood, lol. Have a nice day, evening, etc.