The Witch of Endor (ritual, Deuteronomy, Kingdom, attend, church) - Page 2

Halcyon · #11 10-10-2005, 12:46 PM

Endor? Isn't that the planet of the Ewoks?

If we look at the text literally, i'd say it must be a certain yes to Maize's question. I'd also suggest that since the text says God had abandoned Saul, it is unlikely God rose the spirit for him.

Also, if we again take the bible literally, it was unlikely to be satan as satan doesn't exist in the bible outside of the God appointed role as adversary. Since the satan is an 'employee' of God, and as stated before God had abandoned Saul, it is unlikely God would have ordered the satan to raise the spirit.

Therefore, we can only assume either the woman raised the spirit, or the spirit came up of its own accord.

Other evidence in the bible sees God ordering the killing of witches, sorcerers, necromancers etc... i.e. those most likely to deal with spirit communication. This suggests that God acknowledges the possibility of magick and raising the dead, he just doesn't like it.

Scott1 · #12 10-10-2005, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maize

So the woman is "you-know-who"? Why doesn't it just say that in the story? And what is the literal Bible reader to believe? The story says the woman brought up Samuel, not the devil or God.

No,... the woman consulted the "spirit" in verse 8.... the woman did it, but not of her own power... she used the power of this evil spirit to do so.

Green Gaia · #13 10-10-2005, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott1

No,... the woman consulted the "spirit" in verse 8.... the woman did it, but not of her own power... she used the power of this evil spirit to do so.

The spirit of Samuel. It was still through the woman that this took place. She instigated the event, therefore proving that humans have the ability to speak/control/call up spirits of the dead. That is, if you take the story literally.

lilithu · #14 10-10-2005, 02:06 PM

Exodus 22:18
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Leviticus 19:26
You shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall you use enchantment, nor observe times (foretell the future).

Leviticus 19:31
Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

Leviticus 20:6
And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.

Deuteronomy 18:10-11
There shall not be found among you anyone that...useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.(KJV)

There would be no reason to command people against witchcraft, enchantment, foretune-telling, conjuring spirits, etc, unless the writer(s) of the bible believed these things were possible.

Halcyon · #15 10-10-2005, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maize

The spirit of Samuel. It was still through the woman that this took place. She instigated the event, therefore proving that humans have the ability to speak/control/call up spirits of the dead. That is, if you take the story literally.

Either that or its proof that spirits can speak/control/use human beings of their own free will. There's no way to know which way round it happened, is there?

fromthe heart · #16 10-10-2005, 02:11 PM

Personally conjuring up spirits is a part of the work of the devil...people can dwelve into the spirit world but in doing so they risk their soul in the process. It's not wise to try to meddle in the occult world...it is easy to get caught up in all that and next thing you know you are risking your very own soul because it is forbidden in the Bible to dwell in this sort of darkness. God's people walk in the spirit of truth and light and don't involve themselves in the side of darkness. So given how I view this I would say she had to have the help of Satan given the outcome.

Green Gaia · #17 10-10-2005, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fromthe heart

So given how I view this I would say she had to have the help of Satan given the outcome.

I understand your view, but if we are to read the Bible literally, the story says nothing of Satan himself helping her.

michel · #18 10-10-2005, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott1

Taboo? Healings are performed every day in the Church around the world.

I thought that maybe the 'chanelling' of whatever energy is used to heal would be 'parallel' to whichcraft (as in what some people call white witches)..........I get confused easily with what is 'O.K' and what isn't .................; I do healing (or at least used to, much more than now - because I am often in pain and simply haven't the energy to help others) - and I always made sure to tell those I helped that the healing came from God, not me.