jesus's death.. (punishment, Earth, scriptures, sin, bible)

[gayvin]

i've been askin myself this question...and asked many of my friends this question but no one seemed to be able to answer me...i guess its a pretty dumb question but..

i was thinkin..
wouldnt anyone have died on that cross to get rid of sin?...why is it so special when jesus did it...if gods idea was to flood the earth or cause a disaster to earth (which he proved he would) because it was overflowed with sin..wouldnt any human being go on that cross and be tortured like that just to prevent the disasters?..i am not trying to make god sound evil...i was just curious..

[Aqualung]

Well, nobody else volunteered...

[dan]

Well, I'll share a story from the Civil War that may help you understand the atonement.

A boy from the North was fighting alongside his four brothers in the Civil War. His four brothers were all killed over the course of a month or so. He was the only one left, and one night fell asleep on guard duty. As a result a surprise attack was successful in wiping out almost his entire company. He was responsible for their deaths, and was sentenced to be executed. The day before Abraham Lincoln was to sign the death warrant he received an urgent letter from an old widow. It was the boy's mother. She explained how her other four sons were killed in the war, and this boy was the only one she had left. She begged the President to spare his life - not for him, but for her sake. Hadn't she suffered enough. Lincoln promptly released the boy. The mother's suffering had (in Lincoln's eyes) been sufficient to pay the debt owed by the boy.

Christ's Atonement is the same. We are all condemned by sin, and the scriptures are claer that every man must pay for his own sins. Christ suffered more than the sum of all pain and suffering that all sin would have inflicted. It was not a crime and punishment trade. The consequences for all of our sins were not weighed out and placed on Jesus' back, HE actually suffered more. He then went to the Father and asked He be granted the souls of all those who would follow Him as a token of mercy. God the Father had mercy on Christ (as Lincoln had mercy on the widow) and released us from our debt for Him. It is not for us, it is for Christ. His suffering was sufficient in God's eyes to cover the debt we owed. No other man could have done it because no other man could withstand the suffering He did. No other man was perfect either.

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by Aqualung

Well, nobody else volunteered...

Lul Aqua, i don't think Jesus volunteered! Seem to remember him being pretty damned ****** off near the end. "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?"

[Merlin]

Originally Posted by gayvin

i've been askin myself this question...and asked many of my friends this question but no one seemed to be able to answer me...i guess its a pretty dumb question but..

i was thinkin..
wouldnt anyone have died on that cross to get rid of sin?...why is it so special when jesus did it...if gods idea was to flood the earth or cause a disaster to earth (which he proved he would) because it was overflowed with sin..wouldnt any human being go on that cross and be tortured like that just to prevent the disasters?..i am not trying to make god sound evil...i was just curious..

You are assuming that Jesus really died on the cross! There are lots of credible theories that he did not.

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by Merlin

You are assuming that Jesus really died on the cross! There are lots of credible theories that he did not.

I wouldn't say credible.

The Romans were pretty good at what they did, they had protocol and method for executions such as this to ensure death occured. If someone stabs you in the lung with a dirty spear, you aren't given any medical attention and you're very weak from being pinned to a cross in the blazing sun - you're dead.

[TashaN]

Originally Posted by gayvin

i've been askin myself this question...and asked many of my friends this question but no one seemed to be able to answer me...i guess its a pretty dumb question but..

i was thinkin..
wouldnt anyone have died on that cross to get rid of sin?...why is it so special when jesus did it...if gods idea was to flood the earth or cause a disaster to earth (which he proved he would) because it was overflowed with sin..wouldnt any human being go on that cross and be tortured like that just to prevent the disasters?..i am not trying to make god sound evil...i was just curious..

Actually, according to the bible Jesus said: "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?"
Was he crying asking God to not leave him and get rid of him?

What a father is that to do such a thing.

Personally, i believe that the one on the cross wasn't Jesus but one of his diciples because Jesus put his image on that person.

It's unlogic to concider dying on the cross as a miracle because there were two more guys in the same situation like him on the same time.

The real miracle is that God saved him because there is no miracle in bieng dead by some disbelievers that makes no sense to a powerful person to die this way letting the Roman and Jewish to insult him.

[michel]

Originally Posted by The Truth

Actually, according to the bible Jesus said: "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?"
Was he crying asking God to not leave him and get rid of him?

What a father is that to do such a thing.

Personally, i believe that the one on the cross wasn't Jesus but one of his diciples because Jesus put his image on that person.

It's unlogic to concider dying on the cross as a miracle because there were two more guys in the same situation like him on the same time.

The real miracle is that God saved him because there is no miracle in bieng dead by some disveliever that makes no sense to a powerful person to die this way letting the Roman and Jewish to insult him.

I am not quite sure what you have been reading, The Truth (other than the qu'ran). Jesus was fully aware of what he was doing, and Whether or not you believe that Jesus Christ didn't die on the Cross doesn't even come into the discussion; he did die on the cross, and on the third day, he was resurected.

Now, If you have any evidence that says that Jesus didn't die on the cross, I would look upon that evidence with great suspicion, if I were you.

[dan]

Jesus did die on the cross. The spear did not pierce His lung, but His heart. This is where the blood and "water" came from. Many feel Jesus physically died of a literal broken heart, which is not uncommon. His heart could have ruptured, then His pericardium would have filled with blood, and it would have seperated. The plasma would have appeared as water, everything else as blood. It happens still today.

Jesus did not doubt the Father. Allow me to offer a couple of different views on exacly what He did say. Hang on. I'm gonna have to continue this later.

[Aqualung]

Originally Posted by Halcyon

Lul Aqua, i don't think Jesus volunteered! Seem to remember him being pretty damned ****** off near the end. "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?"

He volunteered in our premortal existence, before the world was made. He was the only one who volunteered to save us under God's direction.