jesus's death.. (punishment, Earth, scriptures, sin, bible)

[Merlin]

Originally Posted by dan

Around six hours.

Six hours to die in crucifixion would have been a world record. The reason the Romans liked it so much, and crucified hundreds of thousands of people during their days of empire, is that it was so agonising for about three days, sometimes longer. They wanted it as a deterrent as well as a punishment.

When they needed the cross again for another person, and somebody was lifting themselves up to take a breath for too many days, they would break their legs to help them on their way. But basically you had to wait until you've had become exhausted and dehydrated to the point where you could not push up to allow you to take a proper breath.

Six hours is highly unlikely.

[Merlin]

Originally Posted by dan

Around six hours. See this site to find out more about when the Gospels were written.

http://www.geocities.com/airspirit3/...mentcanon.html

The Gospel of Matthew was written sometime between AD 90 and 110. Everybody who knew Jesus would be long dead by then. also, Matthew had his own agenda.

Paul was first, about 40 or 50 years earlier.

[TashaN]

Dear Scott1, We will start with the famous statment by Paul.

"If Christ be not risen from the dead, then our preaching is vain, and your faith is also vain."
(1 Corinthians 15:14)

I'll quote some of what i read first ...

Garner Ted Armstrong, the Executive Vice-President and Co-Publisher of the "PLAIN TRUTH"
(a Christian Magazine from America, which boasts a current, FREE, world-wide circulation of 6 million copies a month) , attempts to answer his own puzzle under the heading:
"WAS THE RESURRECTION A HOAX?" This is the typical American way of selling religion. He elucidates his poser -"HOAX?" - with the words, "THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH IS EITHER THE SUPREME FACT OF HISTORY OR A FLAGRANT. DELIBERATE FABRICATION FOISTED OFF ON THE FOLLOWERS OF CHRISTIANITY."

Another budding, young "Billy Graham" from America, Josh McDowell effuses in his book "THE RESURRECTION FACTOR", saying, "I WAS FORCED TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST IS EITHER ONE OF THE MOST WICKED, HEARTLESS, VICIOUS, HOAXES EVER FOISTED UPON THE MINDS OF MEN, OR IT IS THE MOST FANTASTIC FACT OF HISTORY."

First of all, We have to see whether Jesus at that time wanted to be crucifeid or not.

"When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye anything?" And they said, "Nothing" Then said he unto them, "But now, he that hath no purse, let him take it, and likewise his bag; and he that hath no SWORD, let him sell his garment and buy one!"
Luke 22:35-36

". . . Lord, behold, here are two SWORDS." And he said unto them, "It is enough".
Luke 22:38

"And, behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his SWORD, and struck a servant of the high priests, and cut off his ear."
Matthew 26:51

So what do you think about these verses?

Do you think Jesus went to the cross by his own well and he wanted it to be done?

[Aqualung]

For some reason I can't see any significance whatsoever the verses had to the question you asked.

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by Merlin

Six hours to die in crucifixion would have been a world record. The reason the Romans liked it so much, and crucified hundreds of thousands of people during their days of empire, is that it was so agonising for about three days, sometimes longer. They wanted it as a deterrent as well as a punishment.

When they needed the cross again for another person, and somebody was lifting themselves up to take a breath for too many days, they would break their legs to help them on their way. But basically you had to wait until you've had become exhausted and dehydrated to the point where you could not push up to allow you to take a proper breath.

Six hours is highly unlikely.

Not if we take into consideration the multiple beatings that Jesus endured. The other two thieves who were crucified with Jesus died quickly, too. This was a special case also because all of the victims were Jewish and the Jews wanted to bury their dead before a religious feast - the Romans were very concerned with peace, and the Jews revolted when they didn't get things like that. Therefore, according to the biblical accounts, the Romans broke the legs of the other men and found Jesus dead because of his tremendous suffering.

[TashaN]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

Not if we take into consideration the multiple beatings that Jesus endured. The other two thieves who were crucified with Jesus died quickly, too. This was a special case also because all of the victims were Jewish and the Jews wanted to bury their dead before a religious feast - the Romans were very concerned with peace, and the Jews revolted when they didn't get things like that. Therefore, according to the biblical accounts, the Romans broke the legs of the other men and found Jesus dead because of his tremendous suffering.

According to the Gospel writers, the Jews and the Romans managed to have Jesus on the cross by the 6th hour, that is by 12 noon; and by the 9th hour, that is, by 3 o'clock he had given up the ghost — he had died (?). The Jews! As much as they were in a hurry to mount Jesus on the cross, no sooner had they succeeded, they were once more agitated to bring him down. Can you imagine why? Their religious scruples -the Sabbath! They were warned in the "fifth Book of Moses":
"His body (any crucified person) shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shah in any wise bury him that day, (for he that is hanged is accursed of God), that thy land be not defiled, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance."

(HOLY BIBLE) Deuteronomy 21:23

To appease the religious scruples of the Jews (or for any other reason) if it became necessary to expedite death on the cross, the executioners resorted to the "cruri-fragium", a club like horror with which the legs were broken. The victim expired by suffocation within the hour. This was the fast method.

The fourth above: "and they brake not his legs", we are told was in fulfilment of a prophecy:
"He keepeth all his bones, not one of them is broken."

(HOLY BIBLE) Psalm 34:20

If the bones of a victim were to be protected from harm, then they could only be of benefit if the person was ALIVE! For a person, already dead, intact bones mean nothing. Whether they are sawed into pieces, or smashed into smithereens, it will not make any difference to the resurrected body, the spirit or the ghost. But for living persons on the cross (like the "crossmates" of Jesus), the breaking of the legs made all the difference between life and death. The pagan Romans were not hell-bound to fulfil any prophecy. Their reason was that they "SAW that he was dead already, they brake not his legs". — (HOLY BIBLE) John 19:33

"SAW" is a very simple word. We may yet ask, what did they see? Could it be the fulfilment of the words of Christ: "seeing, ye shall see and shall not preceive" — (Matthew 13:14). When John says that the soldiers "saw", he means that they surmised. For no modern-day stethoscope was used to verify death; nor did anyone touch his body or feel his pulse before concluding that "he was dead already". I see in the word "saw" another step in God's plan of rescue.

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by The Truth

This is the typical American way of selling religion.

Other than your ignorant comment about the "American way" this piece does not provide any insight into the topic.

Another budding, young "Billy Graham" from America, Josh McDowell effuses in his book

I understand English is new to you, but do you actually think this stuff is evidence?

So what do you think about these verses?

I think they have NOTHING to do with evidence that Jesus did not die on the cross.

Do you think Jesus went to the cross by his own well and he wanted it to be done?

Yes.... but I'm sure that your Muslim wisdom will show me why I'm reading my Bible incorrectly.... I'll be waiting.

[Merlin]

Originally Posted by The Truth

Dear Scott1, We will start with the famous statment by Paul.

"If Christ be not risen from the dead, then our preaching is vain, and your faith is also vain."
(1 Corinthians 15:14)

I'll quote some of what i read first ...

Garner Ted Armstrong, the Executive Vice-President and Co-Publisher of the "PLAIN TRUTH"
(a Christian Magazine from America, which boasts a current, FREE, world-wide circulation of 6 million copies a month) , attempts to answer his own puzzle under the heading:
"WAS THE RESURRECTION A HOAX?" This is the typical American way of selling religion. He elucidates his poser -"HOAX?" - with the words, "THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH IS EITHER THE SUPREME FACT OF HISTORY OR A FLAGRANT. DELIBERATE FABRICATION FOISTED OFF ON THE FOLLOWERS OF CHRISTIANITY."

Another budding, young "Billy Graham" from America, Josh McDowell effuses in his book "THE RESURRECTION FACTOR", saying, "I WAS FORCED TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST IS EITHER ONE OF THE MOST WICKED, HEARTLESS, VICIOUS, HOAXES EVER FOISTED UPON THE MINDS OF MEN, OR IT IS THE MOST FANTASTIC FACT OF HISTORY."

First of all, We have to see whether Jesus at that time wanted to be crucifeid or not.

"When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye anything?" And they said, "Nothing" Then said he unto them, "But now, he that hath no purse, let him take it, and likewise his bag; and he that hath no SWORD, let him sell his garment and buy one!"
Luke 22:35-36

". . . Lord, behold, here are two SWORDS." And he said unto them, "It is enough".
Luke 22:38

"And, behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his SWORD, and struck a servant of the high priests, and cut off his ear."
Matthew 26:51

So what do you think about these verses?

Do you think Jesus went to the cross by his own well and he wanted it to be done?

Can you tell us what are your objectives with these rather silly posts that you are making? I do not recall people attacking Islam. But it is no more logical than Christianity. It would be far better if you gave us positive thoughts rather than just attacking other people's faith.

Or would you like us to discuss whether the dreams of an illiterate from the Middle East is a good basis for a religion?

[dan]

Originally Posted by Merlin

Six hours to die in crucifixion would have been a world record. The reason the Romans liked it so much, and crucified hundreds of thousands of people during their days of empire, is that it was so agonising for about three days, sometimes longer. They wanted it as a deterrent as well as a punishment.

When they needed the cross again for another person, and somebody was lifting themselves up to take a breath for too many days, they would break their legs to help them on their way. But basically you had to wait until you've had become exhausted and dehydrated to the point where you could not push up to allow you to take a proper breath.

Six hours is highly unlikely.

Which is why Pilate was so astonished.