Can 500+ Eyewitnesses Be Wrong? (Jesus, Earth, disciples, Corinthians) - Page 18

joeboonda · #**171** 09-09-2005, 05:48 PM

The evidence would be that they died for it.

Green Gaia · #**172** 09-09-2005, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeboonda

The evidence would be that they died for it.

I fail to see how that is evidence of anything other than they're dead.

Jayhawker Soule · #**173** 09-09-2005, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeboonda

The evidence would be that they died for it.

Who died? When? According to whom? Repeating urban legend over and over does not make it true.

joeboonda · #**174** 09-09-2005, 07:06 PM

I could list all the apostles and their manner of death, but you would just say, ' do you have solid proof of that?" and I would say no, that I don't have any more proof of that then of many other famous people who died in history. What I am saying is that if they had not seen Jesus after he rose from the dead they would not have died for it. Since they did see Jesus after he rose again, they did die for it. No man will die for something he knows to be a lie. He will die only for something he believes to be true.

Something happenned to change the course of history quite dramaticaly, to change peoples lives, to bring about a people who built hospitals, orphanages, schools, and who were involved in many great humanitarian efforts where others stood by passively. Something happenned. Believe it or not.

Sunstone · #**175** 09-09-2005, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe

What I am saying is that if they had not seen Jesus after he rose from the dead they would not have died for it. Since they did see Jesus after he rose again, they did die for it. No man will die for something he knows to be a lie. He will die only for something he believes to be true.

Your argument assumes that people are willing to die only for things they have personally verified to be true. But, Joe, people die all the time for things they have not personally seen or verified, but believe to be true. Look at history! It's almost human nature to believe in things we have not personally verified to be true.

Jayhawker Soule · #**176** 09-09-2005, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeboonda

I could list all the apostles and their manner of death, but you would just say, ' do you have solid proof of that?" and I would say no, ...

You have no proof period. In my opinion, it is both dishonest and irresponsible to make positive claims under such circumstances.

greatcalgarian · #**177** 09-09-2005, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeboonda

I could list all the apostles and their manner of death, but you would just say, ' do you have solid proof of that?" and I would say no, that I don't have any more proof of that then of many other famous people who died in history. What I am saying is that if they had not seen Jesus after he rose from the dead they would not have died for it. Since they did see Jesus after he rose again, they did die for it. No man will die for something he knows to be a lie. He will die only for something he believes to be true.

Something happenned to change the course of history quite dramaticaly, to change peoples lives, to bring about a people who built hospitals, orphanages, schools, and who were involved in many great humanitarian efforts where others stood by passively. Something happenned. Believe it or not.

Thousands and thousands of Muslim died for their faith, including all the terrorist. Are these evidence that Muslim God Allah is true, and Yahweh is not the right one?

joeboonda · #**178** 09-09-2005, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Your argument assumes that people are willing to die only for things they have personally verified to be true. But, Joe, people die all the time for things they have not personally seen or verified, but believe to be true. Look at history! It's almost human nature to believe in things we have not personally verified to be true.

Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were EYEWITNESSES, and ministers of the word. Luke 1:1-2

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were EYEWITNESSES of his majesty. II Peter 1:16

For the king knoweth of these things, before whom also I speak freely; for I am persuaded that none of these things are hidden from him; FOR THIS THING WAS NOT DONE IN A CORNER. Acts 26:26

These guys were EYEWITNESSES, they SAW Jesus after he rose again, and he was with them for 40 days! They didn't just BELIEVE it, they SAW it. Thus they died for it. Seen?

Jayhawker Soule · #**179** 09-09-2005, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeboonda

... Luke 1:1-2
... II Peter 1:16
... Acts 26:26

These guys were EYEWITNESSES, they SAW Jesus after he rose again, and he was with them for 40 days! They didn't just BELIEVE it, they SAW it. Thus they died for it. Seen?

Poor joeboonda:

Luke was a witness to nothing.
II Peter is widely recognized as pseudepigraphic.

All you have is stories penned by nonwitnesses over half a century after the purported events. Please stop making things up.

joeboonda · #**180** 09-09-2005, 08:05 PM

I thank you for your reply, but I am not poor at all in God's eyes. I did not make these things up, they are in the Bible, your beef is with them, not me. Tell ya what, I will take the Bible, and the eyewitness accounts of the apostles therein over your word anyday. You believe what you want and I will do the same, agreed?