Can 500+ Eyewitnesses Be Wrong? (Jesus, Earth, disciples, Corinthians)

[michel]

Originally Posted by Deut. 32.8

2 Peter is pseudonymous apologetics. From Kirby's site:



His comments regarding scripture carry no more value than yours.

True; those who engage inerrantists are plagued with their absurd and pretentious arguments.

Well, let's just hear it for Kirby!

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by AV1611

Well, let's just hear it for Kirby!

Your contempt for scholarship is far more diagnostic than surprising. Nevertheless, Kirby does no more than identify the type of consensus expressed here in the Introducton of the Catholic New American Bible ...

Nevertheless, acceptance of 2 Peter into the New Testament canon met with great resistance in the early church. The oldest certain reference to it comes from Origen in the early third century. While he himself accepted both Petrine letters as canonical, he testifies that others rejected 2 Peter. As late as the fifth century some local churches still excluded it from the canon, but eventually it was universally adopted. The principal reason for the long delay was the persistent doubt that the letter stemmed from the apostle Peter.

Among modern scholars there is wide agreement that 2 Peter is a pseudonymous work, i.e., one written by a later author who attributed it to Peter according to a literary convention popular at the time. It gives the impression of being more remote in time from the apostolic period than 1 Peter; indeed, many think it is the latest work in the New Testament and assign it to the first or even the second quarter of the second century.

That you applaud your own ignorance does little to redeem your argument.

[sprinkled wings]

Can 500+ Eyewitnesses Be Wrong?

Ummmmmm....No?!

[Darkdale]

Originally Posted by AV1611

In view of the fact that 1 Corinthians 15 mentions over 500 eyewitnesses to Jesus' resurrection, is that enough to convict Him of same?

That doesn't mean 500 eyewitnesses witnessed Jesus' resurrection. Why not just place your faith in your mythology and trust that your god will care for you? Why try to pretend like religion is objective or scientific?

[greatcalgarian]

Originally Posted by AV1611

Nope ... Paul was speaking in real time ... whereas you were using a Location-Selecting Dynameter to go back in time - (you'll get that in a minute or so).

Had you really been there, you wouldn't be misspelling it.

Paul spelled correctly.

Did not know Paul wrote in English

[greatcalgarian]

Originally Posted by AV1611

1. By calling the whole of Scripture, the 'Word of God'.
2. By preserving it spotless.
3. By transmitting it over the centuries into the AV1611.

The very 1st word in the Bible is IN.

Middle word is LORD.

Last word is AMEN.

That's what the whole Bible is about.

Did you happen to see my post where I showed perfect balance in the layout of the OT books --- using just the content page?

Show and prove to us that it applied in the Greek version as well

[drekmed]

this is a response to AV1611 post 83. sorry it took about 12 hours to reply, i just got back to work and read it.

Originally Posted by AV1611

The Ten Commandments - (Exodus 20)

according to this, Verse 1, " And God spake all these words" nowhere does it say in Exodus 20 that god wrote anything. and apparently only moses heard the words of god, the isrealites were scared and said "18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. 19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die."

so, only moses actually "heard" god say anything, not that it is beyond god to choose who hears him. but exodus 20 says absolutely nothing about god writing anything, please read the passage before using it to try and discredit something i write.

Originally Posted by AV1611

The Handwriting on the Wall - (Daniel 5:25)

Daniel 5:25 And this is the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.

not seeing it say god actually wrote anything there.

Daniel 5:4 They drank wine, and praised the gods of gold, and of silver, of brass, of iron, of wood, and of stone.5 In the same hour came forth fingers of a man's hand, and wrote over against the candlestick upon the plaster of the wall of the king's palace: and the king saw the part of the hand that wrote.

says nothing about the hand of god writing the words, although it could be assumed, but they were drunk and who knows what else, could have been hallucinating.

once again, where did god actually write anything?

Try seven - (Psalm 12:6)

this is "To the chief Musician upon Sheminith, A Psalm of David" it may be no more inspired than oh say........ a green day song. but i'll give ya this one, since these things have all been covered already, i believe in the sola scriptura thread for christians only.

It would be an affront to God to demand He "prove" His documentation in Person, I'm sure you can appreciate that. Try that at work when the boss sends a memo around and see how long you remain employed.

being in security, i question anything that appears to be falsified or out of the ordinary. if my boss tells me to do something and is standing in front of me, i'll dont need to question the authenticity, he told me himself. if someone i have never met comes up and says hey your boss says to do (insert command here) of course i'll question it and ask my boss, who would then be glad i was so vigilant in my duties.

In Luke 16, when the rich man realized the reality of Hell, he asked Abraham to allow him to go back and witness to his 5 brothers. Abraham said NO because they have the Scriptures available to them. We can learn from others' tragedies, can't we?

Luke 16 is believe to be a parable, a story told by jesus to his disciples, to explain something to them. the author of luke might not have actually been there to begin with to hear jesus say this, and could have been making the entire thing up. the actual meaning of this story is left open for interpretation. create a different thread if you feel this passages meaning needs to be debated.

Like I said, see if your boss will appreciate your "validation skills" at work.

like i just said, they approve of them. its part of my job description to question something i dont believe is authentic.

What makes you think, drekmed, when He wouldn't even let Moses see Him, that He'll let YOU see him?

Exodus 33:20 = AND HE SAID, THOU CANST NOT SEE MY FACE: FOR THERE SHALL NO MAN SEE ME, AND LIVE.

Exodus 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

What was that you were saying?
maybe moses couldn't see his face, but apparently god was standing face to face with moses, perhaps god was wearing a mask, or something to cover his entire figure, or maybe god could put an image in the mind and make you think you are seeing him when you actually aren't, i think that would count too. i know i'd be happy with that kinda thing, it would cover the part of god standing right in front of me, or "face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend." wouldn't you?

please read the things you would like to use to discredit my arguements, so that you dont discedit your side of the arguement.

nice try though. keep trying, maybe then you'll actually read the book like i have. and just so you know, i did nothing more than read the chapters you gave with the verse, and came up with the answers for the bible parts.

thanks for the fun AV1611, i do enjoy this.

Drekmed

[drekmed]

Originally Posted by AV1611

1. 1. By calling the whole of Scripture, the 'Word of God'.
   2. By preserving it spotless.
   3. By transmitting it over the centuries into the AV1611.

The very 1st word in the Bible is IN.




Middle word is LORD.

Last word is AMEN.

That's what the whole Bible is about.



Did you happen to see my post where I showed perfect balance in the layout of the OT books --- using just the content page?

Originally Posted by greatcalgarian

Show and prove to us that it applied in the Greek version as well

yes, i agree

[michel]

Originally Posted by JerryL

How can I verify that God has verified Paul's verification of God?

My time-travel has been verified by God.

So now that you know God has verified it, you agree I time-travelled?

No, your time-travel wasn't verified by God, Jerry. Where is it in Scripture?

This time-travel story you're using is what God would call a 'false prophet'.

[michel]

Originally Posted by JerryL

How can I verify that God has verified Paul's verification of God?

My time-travel has been verified by God.

So now that you know God has verified it, you agree I time-travelled?

Jerry,

Is there any way you can convince me of your time travel ?- I have been meaning to ask this for ages.