what !!! Where Jesus said so? (GOD) (Jesus Christ, Creator, Moses, Earth)

[michel]

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[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by Abram

Yasin,

Only Jesus words? Why, now you question the entire Bible. Paul was not inspired by God? Then what about Moses, Solomon, ect... So you admit to seeing the truth that yes Jesus is God and is still alive today. But your looking for reason to justify you religion. And I don't blame you, I'm here for the same reason we all our. To know the truth.
You took a quote from AV1611 where he quotes Philippians 2:6. Where Christ is said to give up his divine position in order to take on our nature. The entire peace is amazing.
6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and made in the likeness of men
8And being found in the fashion of a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10That at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of things of heaven, and things in earth;
11And that every tonge should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the father
God came to this earth in the form of a man because how else would he come. If we truly saw God in all his glory we would die. He came to save us from death. It's the best love story ever.

I try to stick to the words of Jesus as well.
There is no doubt that Jesus' words were the words God bade Him to speak.

This cannot be said of Paul, however. Neither Jesus nor God gave any authority to Paul whatsoever. In fact Jesus gave authority to Peter and to James. He never met Paul, who was still Saul of Tarsus at that time.

Paul says he had a vision. I have no reason to doubt Paul's word, but I have no reason to give him any interpretive authority either.

Paul is good guidance 99% of the time, but there is no authority to interpret Jesus' words given to Paul.

Regards,
Scott

[Abram]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

I try to stick to the words of Jesus as well.
There is no doubt that Jesus' words were the words God bade Him to speak.

This cannot be said of Paul, however. Neither Jesus nor God gave any authority to Paul whatsoever. In fact Jesus gave authority to Peter and to James. He never met Paul, who was still Saul of Tarsus at that time.

Paul says he had a vision. I have no reason to doubt Paul's word, but I have no reason to give him any interpretive authority either.

Paul is good guidance 99% of the time, but there is no authority to interpret Jesus' words given to Paul.

Regards,
Scott

A very strong point that I was unaware of. So how should we handle what Paul wrote. Do we believe any of what he wrote then? Or try to figure out where he was misunderstood? I do see that your right God nor Jesus gave him authority, I don't like that fact either. Cause it's so strong

[BM5]

"The Father is Greater Than I" is a reference to the Father as the First Cause, similiar to ourselves honoring our own father.
The Father begot the Son and the Holy Ghost. I believe in One Almighty Triune God, the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost.
The Person of the Son took flesh of the sinless Virgin Mary and raised it to Divinity.
I don't believe that there is anything human left the absorbtion was so complete.
There is no plurality of Gods in my faith, but one God with three Persons.
"The Father and I are one"

[BM5]

Originally Posted by Abram

A very strong point that I was unaware of. So how should we handle what Paul wrote. Do we believe any of what he wrote then? Or try to figure out where he was misunderstood? I do see that your right God nor Jesus gave him authority, I don't like that fact either. Cause it's so strong

This debate over Saul of Tarsus goes on and on and on, I have made several post about what I think if anyone is interested but I would like to add that when I think of God the first word that comes to mine is " JUST ", God is just and renders justice, it is what we call just love.

The next point is that God is perfect and cannot change.

Re: Tarsus, here we have an unrepentant butcherer of Our Lords sheep making the claim about what we all know about, i.e. the alleged events on the road to Damascus, following this the eventual domination of the Christian Church.

God gave the commandments to Moses and demanded justice to be dealt out if they were broken.

Tarsus had the blood of innocent people on his head, it makes no sense that Our Lord as God would throw down His own law and do what Tarsus has claimed.

Deliberate duplicity is the only name for it, so to answer your question, no, we should not believe what he wrote, and I for one do not and never will. But the choice is all ours to make.

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by Abram

A very strong point that I was unaware of. So how should we handle what Paul wrote. Do we believe any of what he wrote then? Or try to figure out where he was misunderstood? I do see that your right God nor Jesus gave him authority, I don't like that fact either. Cause it's so strong

I think you can take 99% of Paul's words to the bank with faith in them.

I think that we are subject to the law under God's justice. We are subject to repentance and firgiveness under God's grace. Both are infinite, why should we worry?

Regards,
Scott

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by BM5

"The Father is Greater Than I" is a reference to the Father as the First Cause, similiar to ourselves honoring our own father.
The Father begot the Son and the Holy Ghost. I believe in One Almighty Triune God, the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost.
The Person of the Son took flesh of the sinless Virgin Mary and raised it to Divinity.
I don't believe that there is anything human left the absorbtion was so complete.
There is no plurality of Gods in my faith, but one God with three Persons.
"The Father and I are one"

I look at it this way: God is Single, Alone and One. To be known and loved This Creator cannot reveal Himself in His full essence to us and expect us to survive. Therefore He communes with and reveals to a single Divine Manifestation what we need to know at this point in mankind's development in a way that we CAN understand, know and love Him.

The SUN is too hot, radioactive, and intense for us to feel upon our flesh without distance and filtering. We can never feel the heat and radiation of the sun directly.
At the distance of eight minutes travel (some 93 million miles) the rays of the sun after filtering by our atmosphere DO allow us to know the warmth and light of the sun. We can tolerate the reflection of the sun's light in a mirror.

God is the SUN, the rays of the sun after being safely filtered are the Holy SPirit, and the mirror in which we cfan safely gaxe upon the sun's glory is Jesus.

Each seperate. None of them the Essence of God, but God - Single, Alone and ONE.

Jesus was the closest thing to GOd which the people of Jesus' time could see without being blasted by the full Essence of God. He was not, however, God.

Regards,
Scott

[Abram]

I don't know how anyone could read through the book of John and not know Jesus claims.

"I tell you the truth", Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am"
-John 8:58
In fact isn't the reason they killed him is because of this claim? To be God.

[Popeyesays]

[quote=Abram]I don't know how anyone could read through the book of John and not know Jesus claims.

"I tell you the truth", Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am"
-John 8:58
QUOTE]

He was speaking utter truth. However, it does not equate to a claim to be God.

As to the reason the Sanhedrin pursued His death - He was a threat to their status, to their reputations, to their wealth, to their respect, to their "perks", to their social position. That was quite sufficient to pursue the death of Jesus, to His persecutors, anyway.

Regards,
Scott