Was Jesus' Sacrifice Significant? (crucify, beliefs, eternity, God, Christ)

[bartdanr]

Hi All,

Was Jesus' sacrifice significant? What, if anything, did Jesus lose that he did not regain (and that fairly quickly--three days or 33 years; either way, a heartbeat of eternity)?

How would you make the case that Jesus' sacrifice (or God the Father's sacrifice of his son) was something significant?

Peace

[TashaN]

until now no body ever could prove ( for sure ) that Jesus sacrificed himself for the sake of ( us ) because he was trying to defend himself when the Roman soldiers were trying to catch him (giuded by jews) even thought we can't say God sacrificed his son because how cruel that would be and if h was just the father's flesh body as many claim so why God " the father" would sacrifice part of him once that he can simply forgive his children (us).

Therefore, i think the " sacrifice " fiction doesn't exist because there is nothing proof that God sent Jesus as a sheep for killing neither Jesus went to the Roman saying please crucify me to save my people.

So, if they crucify him out of his well and intention so it's not Significant at all.

[bartdanr]

Originally Posted by The Truth

until now no body ever could prove ( for sure ) that Jesus sacrificed himself for the sake of ( us ) because he was trying to defend himself when the Roman soldiers were trying to catch him (giuded by jews) even thought we can't say God sacrificed his son because how cruel that would be and if h was just the father's flesh body as many claim so why God " the father" would sacrifice part of him once that he can simply forgive his children (us).

Therefore, i think the " sacrifice " fiction doesn't exist because there is nothing proof that God sent Jesus as a sheep for killing neither Jesus went to the Roman saying please crucify me to save my people.

So, if they crucify him out of his well and intention so it's not Significant at all.

Thanks, Truth, for the post.

Your post got me to thinking: if one forgives a debt, is payment still necessary?

That is, if God forgives sin, why would s/he still demand payment (in the form of Christ's sacrifice)? Conversly, can we say God "forgives" us if he received payment in full (through Christ's sacrifice)?

Peace

[TashaN]

Welcome

[The Black Whirlwind]

there were many (maybe still are) martyrs in the world, why is Jesus so significant?

[Boltwave]

Originally Posted by TheJedi

there were many (maybe still are) martyrs in the world, why is Jesus so significant?

Look, if it wasn't signifigant then why is there such a thing as stigmata? That's a rare condition where someone recieves the wounds of Christ if you didn't know by the way.

[TashaN]

Originally Posted by Boltwave

Look, if it wasn't signifigant then why is there such a thing as stigmata? That's a rare condition where someone recieves the wounds of Christ if you didn't know by the way.

are you trying to say this is a proof to build your whole beliefs in?

by the way, did you see those stigmata or you just heard of it even though it dosn't proof nothing.

[Boltwave]

Originally Posted by The Truth

are you trying to say this is a proof to build your whole beliefs in?

by the way, did you see those stigmata or you just heard of it even though it dosn't proof nothing.

No, no, no, there is a bigger picture to all of this. There have been frauds of stigmata and that has convinced people that it's just superstition. But no, I don't base my facts on just that, do you even know about the first stigmata? Read up on it.

[bartdanr]

Originally Posted by Boltwave

Look, if it wasn't signifigant then why is there such a thing as stigmata? That's a rare condition where someone recieves the wounds of Christ if you didn't know by the way.

Hi Boltwave, thanks for the post.

Stigmata may be nothing more than hoaxes--God knows that we've had enough hoaxes made to defend almost any religion!

But my question is not really whether Jesus actually died on the cross or not. Even assuming he did (and assuming stigmata are real miracles, though I don't really see what that proves if they are), why should his sacrifice be considered great? According to the Scriptures, Jesus lost precisely nothing: he was quickly healed from his death. His confident predictions of his own resurrection clearly showed that his mental state was also such that he was going to go through an extremely difficult and painful process, but in the end he would lose nothing.

How then is it a sacrifice? Is a short period of intense suffering the ultimate sacrifice?

I would think that a human who gives his or her life, not knowing for sure what lies beyond, gives up more than a divine being who temporarily experiences suffering.

Peace

[TashaN]

Originally Posted by Boltwave

No, no, no, there is a bigger picture to all of this. There have been frauds of stigmata and that has convinced people that it's just superstition. But no, I don't base my facts on just that, do you even know about the first stigmata? Read up on it.

what if this stigmata wasn't for Jesus but for someone else for example who was crucified?

is there any evidence that the stigmata releated to Jesus Christ not someone else?