Was Jesus' Sacrifice Significant? (crucify, beliefs, eternity, God, Christ)

[TashaN]

Originally Posted by Aqualung

I don't really understand you. Perhaps it's because this huge long paragraph is one really, really long sentence? Umm... reword it, break it up into a few more sentences. Because I read it a bunch of times, and I just can't undertand it.

ok i'll make it short for you.

Originally Posted by Aqualung

Would you really? Let's lay you have a five year old son. And one day he is playing with his ball near the road. It runs into the road, and a car drives up at really high speeds, and you know the two will collide. You jump in front, pushing your son away, and then you get hit and die. If then, you could learn that the five year old gets the hugest ego, saying that appearantly it is in the stars that he live, and he starts ordering around his parents, and becomes a real brat, and doesn't even do anything with the life you so generously allowed him to have, that woudn't make you in the slightest bit mad?

do you mean God "the father" supposed to sacrifice himself to save his son "Jesus"?

if not so that means we are smarter and have more mercy than God who we claim he is
"The Love" himself that we could sarifice ourselves to save our children but God would not do it for his son?

So, what do you think now?

Warning: please use your mind and don't try to use the so claim faith to make you go around trying to find anything that may work to explain what you don't actually accept by your mind so i advice you to think about it deeply by your mind trying to figured it out whether it makes any sense to you or not to you.

[Aqualung]

Originally Posted by The Truth

do you mean God "the father" supposed to sacrifice himself to save his son "Jesus

No. I guess I didn't make the most parrallel metaphore I could. In the car example, it would be like a father allowing a brother to sacrifice himself for a younger brother.

Originally Posted by The Truth

Warning: please use your mind and don't try to use the so claim faith to make you go around trying to find anything that may work to explain what you don't actually accept by your mind so i advice you to think about it deeply by your mind trying to figured it out whether it makes any sense to you or not to you.

Are you telling me that I don't actually beleive what I'm saying? Or that I don't use my mind when I answer my questions? Because if that's what you are saying you are completely wrong.

[bartdanr]

Hi Aqualung, thanks for your post.

Originally Posted by Aqualung

You did, though. You will now no longer be able to enjoy the things that you would enjoy if you had been able to live your life out. That's the plain and simple truth.

This I don't understand. Do you believe that if resurrected, the new life we have would somehow be inferior to the life before death? What are the differences you see in life before death and life after resurrection?

That's not all he wants. He wants us to make something of our lives. Even if you could handle it if a person that you saved did not do anything with that gift, I don't consider it emotionally immature to expect that we would at least try to make something of the lives which were so generously given to us.

Ok, I think we're talking two seperate and negative reactions to a gift: (1) a person who doesn't care about the gift-giver, but uses the gift; and (2) a person who doesn't want the gift, and doesn't care about the gift-giver.

Now, whether you are a universalist or not determines a great deal about your answer. If you are a universalist, then it doesn't really matter if a person wants the gift or not--they will still be saved. Their feelings about the gift giver likewise don't matter.

If you aren't a universalist, then it is likely that you believe that the gift of salvation can be refused. If salvation is a wonderful gift, then no rational person would refuse it (and especially if the alternative is eternal torment.) Why would anyone consider it less than wonderful? (This would be a productive bunny path to wander along.)

You say "that's not all he wants", showing that he does want such worship. To me, that cannot be the sign of a being who is emotionally mature.

Yes, we should make something of our lives. But non-Christians can make a great deal of their lives as well. For this, should they be damned?

Peace

[TashaN]

Originally Posted by Aqualung

No. I guess I didn't make the most parrallel metaphore I could. In the car example, it would be like a father allowing a brother to sacrifice himself for a younger brother.

are you saying that you would allow your own son to get killed by others saving his brother instead of stopping the car or saving him by yourself ( because you can do so ) !!!! and you will just set and watch the movie ?

do you see now what was the warning for? to use your mind.

Originally Posted by Aqualung

Are you telling me that I don't actually beleive what I'm saying? Or that I don't use my mind when I answer my questions? Because if that's what you are saying you are completely wrong.

i just proved for you how you don't use your mind in the pervious quote.

[Aqualung]

Originally Posted by The Truth

are you saying that you would allow your own son to get killed by others saving his brother instead of stopping the car or saving him by yourself ( because you can do so ) !!!! and you will just set and watch the movie ?

do you see now what was the warning for? to use your mind.

I think you're the one who needs to use his mind. how could God himself do it? He has already gone through his life, died, was resurected, and then exalted. He can't do that again.

Originally Posted by The Truth

i just proved for you how you don't use your mind in the pervious quote

Yeah. Because I'm the one who can't speak in complete sentences, or express entire thoughts.

[Steve]

Hi bartdanr

The way i see it is this,
We have all broken Gods laws, God is Just, Holy and Righteous so cant just let Sin/wrong doing go unpunished. He is God so he gets to set the penalty for our sin, Their are 2 ways God has decided to ultimatley punish sin, one of them is by us in Hell the other is by Jesus' torture and Crucifixion.
The second option is a gift from God which we dont deserve, it is only by Gods grace and love that he made this atonement for us. For it to take effect it does require us to turn back to God and away from our sin though, hence the reluctance of many to take up Gods offer.

This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished- he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. Romans 3:22-26

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. John 3:16-19

Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:4-6

[TashaN]

Originally Posted by Aqualung

I think you're the one who needs to use his mind. how could God himself do it? He has already gone through his life, died, was resurected, and then exalted. He can't do that again.

you said: In the car example, it would be like a father allowing a brother to sacrifice himself for a younger brother.
OK ... who is the father and who is the brother who sacrificed himself?

Jesus is the brother who sarificed himself and his father is our God "the father" right?


Yeah. Because I'm the one who can't speak in complete sentences, or express entire thoughts.[/quote]
this is because of the language but not the processing of the mind.

[Aqualung]

Jesus is the brother who sarificed himself and his father is our God "the father" right?

Right.

Originally Posted by The Truth

this is because of the language but not the processing of the mind.

Well, good. Now that you know what happens when people assume stupidity instead of language, or when people assume stupidity instead of a difference in beleif, I hope we can have a better debate, instead of going around telling each other to use our minds.

[TashaN]

Jesus is the brother who sarificed himself and his father is our God "the father" right ?
and you said right.

Therfore, I said God "the father" would allow his own son "Jesus" to get killed by others (jews & Roman) to save the other son instead of stopping them? he did so to wash away our sins right?

Then, he just allowed them to do so instead of saving his son "Jesus" from them (because he can do so by forgiving the sin) and he will just simply watch?

Will you do the same for the sake of saving your son by allowing the other one to be killed?
I want a direct answer if you don't mind.

and sorry if i disturbed you by my comments about the mind thing.

Is it clear this time?