Was Jesus' Sacrifice Significant? (crucify, beliefs, eternity, God, Christ)

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by The Truth

sorry to say this but it's really a shame to respond in such a way that you neglect anything which comes from soemone who does not believe in Jesus Christ as a savior for example answering him saying if you don't believe in Jesus so you don't have to know it or you will not understand it

Never said or implied such a thing...

Peace be with you.

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by bartdanr

Although I recognize that millions of people belief the event to be significant to their own lives, my focus is more on if it was significant to Jesus himself.

Ahh.. I see. Ok

As I believe Jesus was fully human and divine, I do believe it was quite significant.

Scott

[michel]

Originally Posted by The Truth

sorry to say this but it's really a shame to respond in such a way that you neglect anything which comes from soemone who does not believe in Jesus Christ as a savior for example answering him saying if you don't believe in Jesus so you don't have to know it or you will not understand it . i have no problem with blind faith people because they just went through a brain washer machines during thier childhood, teenage and when they became adult enough to understand what is around them then they just defend themselves from thoughts and they fight it saying: (( i'm a believer and i should follow blindly because simply i belief in and i don't care whether it makes any sense or not because i used to it and i'll stick to it till i die)). just so pathetic

here it doesn't matter what you believe in because it's your own business but we are just trying to discuss somthing whatever you believe in so if you can't answer to any question instead of saying if you don't believe in Jesus so you will never know so you must one thing of two:

1- If you don't have any idea about any topic but you believe in it no matter what so you have to wait until the other members can make it clear for you.

2- If you have some ideas and proofs so you can share your information with others.


for example for me as a muslim if someone could say somthing about islam that i can't answer so i'll never say to him this is just what i believe in because he has the right to talk and ask about it because it's a general topic and anyone can participate in it no matter what my personal opnion is.



Peace

I think you misunderstood, my friend;

I believe what Scott was trying to say is that the significance of Jesus' sacrifice is something so very great, for those of us who believe that God sent his only begotten son on Earth, to die a horrible death, so that we could be forgiven our sins.

I don't think for a minute that Scott was saying that it would mean nothing to someone who does not follow 'Blind faith' - I think he was trying to say that Jesus' death was an enormously significant act. I think you misunderstood.

[TashaN]

Originally Posted by michel

I think you misunderstood, my friend;

I believe what Scott was trying to say is that the significance of Jesus' sacrifice is something so very great, for those of us who believe that God sent his only begotten son on Earth, to die a horrible death, so that we could be forgiven our sins.

I don't think for a minute that Scott was saying that it would mean nothing to someone who does not follow 'Blind faith' - I think he was trying to say that Jesus' death was an enormously significant act. I think you misunderstood.

sorry


i misunderstood him.

i apologize for you Mr. Scott in case i thought you meant somthing else.


Peace...

[bartdanr]

Originally Posted by Scott1

Ahh.. I see. Ok

As I believe Jesus was fully human and divine, I do believe it was quite significant.

Scott

HI Scott, thanks for the post.

I'm trying to relate it just to a human sacrifice--if I knew for a fact (or as well as I can know anything) that I will have to suffer and die and be dead for just 3 days, after which I would be given everything back and it would result in the salvation of all humankind, then I would do it--no question! But it seems almost too easy. (Now, being sent enterally to hell to save humankind--that would be a real sacrifice!)

Similarly, if I try to look at it from God's perspective, then he would know even better than Jesus the man what would happen--again, he would lose precisely nothing for good, and gain not only the salvation of all humankind and their eternal homage and worship. (Now, to do that sacrifice in such a way that no one would ever know--that, again, would be greater.)

So I really don't see how Jesus--whether in his divinity or humanity--gave up anything permanently. Could you please explain how you see it?

Peace

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by bartdanr

But it seems almost too easy.

I don't believe you.... give me a plank of wood and some nails and I'll come to your house and convice you otherwise... hehe .... and it won't even kill you.... I'll just do one hand.... and you will experience a pain that will change your life.

Easy? Coming from someone who has been shot... knowing that my mortality was not in jeapardy did not add much comfort to the pain.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

PBWY,
Scott

[Aqualung]

Originally Posted by bartdanr

I'm trying to relate it just to a human sacrifice--if I knew for a fact (or as well as I can know anything) that I will have to suffer and die and be dead for just 3 days, after which I would be given everything back and it would result in the salvation of all humankind, then I would do it--no question! But it seems almost too easy. (Now, being sent enterally to hell to save humankind--that would be a real sacrifice!)

The sacrifice didn't come with his death. It came before his death, when he took upon himself the sins of the world. That was a sacrifice, that pained him so much that he asked his Father to allow him to not do it, that it caused him to bleed from every pore in his body. he suffered enough to take everyone's sins. He just died, and rose again, to allow all of us to be resurected.

[michel]

Originally Posted by Aqualung

The sacrifice didn't come with his death. It came before his death, when he took upon himself the sins of the world. That was a sacrifice, that pained him so much that he asked his Father to allow him to not do it, that it caused him to bleed from every pore in his body. he suffered enough to take everyone's sins. He just died, and rose again, to allow all of us to be resurected.

That's so well put, aqualung......fruballicious!

[bartdanr]

Originally Posted by Scott1

I don't believe you.... give me a plank of wood and some nails and I'll come to your house and convice you otherwise... hehe .... and it won't even kill you.... I'll just do one hand.... and you will experience a pain that will change your life.

Easy? Coming from someone who has been shot... knowing that my mortality was not in jeapardy did not add much comfort to the pain.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

PBWY,
Scott

Hi Scott, thanks for your post.

It seems to easy in that though the physical pain is intense (but short), if it can result in the whole world being saved--and I'd survive, be fully healed, and loved and admired--even worshipped--by millions of people? Yes, easy at that price. It is relatively cheap--indeed, incredibly cheap--at the price. A few hours of intense suffering, three days in the grave--and the world is saved? Yes, very cheap.

Jesus' pain was great; I will not dispute that. But others have suffered more. Others have suffered more, for longer. Others suffered more for longer and had no absolute assurance that they would be resurrected three days later and glorified.

No, I don't want to be crucified...but if I could have the assurance that my crucifixion would result in what Jesus' crucifixtion allegedly resulted in (salvation for all humanity, glorification of self and even being worshipped), it would be an easy choice. Heck, I'd even do it without recognition. (I, for one, don't care to be worshipped...indeed, it seems to contradict Jesus' claim to come to serve rather than be served.) You driving holes in my hands (and of course I realize you're joking) will only cause me pain, and result in no real good. That's a big difference.

Peace