Was Jesus' Sacrifice Significant? (crucify, beliefs, eternity, God, Christ)

[Bennettresearch]

Hi Aqualung (still have the album)

The Old Testament is rampant with reinforcing the concept of sacrifice of animals and burnt offerings of cereal grains. What this reminds me of is when Moses came back and found tha Aaron had made an idol of the Golden Calf. It is the same with the Jews in the Bible. They hanged on to ancient practices of offering sacrifices to their gods.
Do we, as Christians, perform sacrifices? If this practice is required by God, then why not? It is disheartening to not be able to find much in the way of protesting this act in the Bible but I have found some interesting verses.

Psalms 40:6; Sacrifice and offering thou dost not desire; but thou hast given me an open ear. Burnt offering and sin offering thou hast not required.

Psalms 106:38; they poured out innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan; and the land was polluted with blood.

Ecclesiastes 5:1; Guard your steps when you go to the house of God; to draw near to listen is better than to offer the sacrifice of fools; for they do not know that they are doing evil.

Isaiah 1:11; "What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices? says the LORD; I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fed beasts; I do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs, or of he-goats.

Isaiah 66:3; "He who slaughters an ox is like him who kills a man; he who sacrifices a lamb, like him who breaks a dogs neck; he who presents a cereal offering, like him who offers swines blood; he who makes a memorial offering of frankincense, like him who blesses an idol. These have chosen their own ways, and their soul delights in their abominations;

Jeremiah 7:22; For in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to your fathers or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.

Ezekiel 20:31; When you offer your gifts and sacrifice your sons by fire, you defile yourselves with all your idols to this day. And shall I be inquired of by you, O house of Israel? As I live, says the Lord GOD, I will not be inquired of by you.

Hosea 6:6; For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice, the knowledge of God, rather than burnt offerings.

Hosea 8:13; They love sacrifice; they sacrifice flesh and eat it; but the LORD has no delight in them. Now he will remember their iniquity, and punish their sins; they shall return to Egypt.

Daniel 8:13; Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said to the one that spoke, "For how long is the vision concerning the continual burnt offering, the transgression that makes desolate, and the giving over of the sanctuary and host to be trampled under foot?"


How do we equate the sacrificing of animals to that of the Son of God? If there was a definate outcry against the pagan practice of sacrificing children, then why would God sacrifice His own Son? This is why i have a problem with the sanctioning of the Crucifixion as being ordained by God.

[Aqualung]

Originally Posted by Bennettresearch

Hi Aqualung (still have the album)

Yeah, me too. I also have it on cd so I can listen to it (my turntable broke )

Originally Posted by Bennettresearch

Do we, as Christians, perform sacrifices? If this practice is required by God, then why not?

One of the reasons that the Jews had to make animal sacrifices was to constatly remind them of their sins and what needs to be done to cleanse them. The jews of the OT were notorious for very quickly leaving their God when they weren't being constantly reminded of him. This is one of the reasons that animal sacrifce was a part of mosaic law. Another was to be type for Jesus.

Originally Posted by Bennettresearch

How do we equate the sacrificing of animals to that of the Son of God? If there was a definate outcry against the pagan practice of sacrificing children, then why would God sacrifice His own Son? This is why i have a problem with the sanctioning of the Crucifixion as being ordained by God.

One of the things to understand is that God didn't just one day say, "I think I'll sacrifice my firstborn son. Won't that be fun!" He thought of it even before he created the earth. He knew that human would fall short, so he needed a way that we could be redeemed. Jesus allowed himslef to be sacrificed, because of his love for his father, and his love for all of us, and God did it because of his love for Jesus and his love for all of us. It would be the selfish father who would say, "you can't go through any pain in your life, but of course everybody else will die because of that."

[Bennettresearch]

Ok, I am convinced everyone. When Mt St Helens errupts again I am going to drive right ddown there and throw a virgin into the volcanoe. That should put my sins to rest for while at least. Does this all mean that when Jesus comes back we will crucify Him again to cleanse all of the sins that have been committed since He was here last time?

[Aqualung]

Originally Posted by Bennettresearch

Ok, I am convinced everyone. When Mt St Helens errupts again I am going to drive right ddown there and throw a virgin into the volcanoe. That should put my sins to rest for while at least.

Well, you can go ahead and do that, except that nowhere did God say it was okay for us to sacrifice other human beings. He only allowed his son to be sacrificed after Jesus agreed to it.

Originally Posted by Bennettresearch

Does this all mean that when Jesus comes back we will crucify Him again to cleanse all of the sins that have been committed since He was here last time?

Nope. He died once and for all for all sins.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Bennettresearch

Does this all mean that when Jesus comes back we will crucify Him again to cleanse all of the sins that have been committed since He was here last time?

Hardly.

Hebrews 10: 10By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, 13waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. 14For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. 15And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,
16"THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART,
AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,"
He then says,
17"AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS
I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
18Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.

[Bennettresearch]

OK, but it still doesn't address for me the validity of Jesus being a human sacrifice sanctioned by God. It doesn't wash and just because Paul said so doesn't make it true. If it were so, then it invalidates the story of Abraham and Isaac that puts and end to human sacrifice. There is much criticism in the OT about the pagan practice of sacrificing one's children as an abomination, mainly directed at the Canaanites. Are we to disregard this and say that ours sins must be cleansed by a human sacrifice? Not seeing it, sorry.

[huajiro]

Originally Posted by bartdanr

Hi All,

Was Jesus' sacrifice significant? What, if anything, did Jesus lose that he did not regain (and that fairly quickly--three days or 33 years; either way, a heartbeat of eternity)?

How would you make the case that Jesus' sacrifice (or God the Father's sacrifice of his son) was something significant?

Peace

Even if you do not believe in Jesus, I feel that his example is a great one to follow. Self-sacrifice is a beautiful thing, if not the most beautiful thing.

[joeboonda]

Jesus' sacrifice sure was significant to me! Without it I could not be forgiven of my sins and enter Heaven.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Bennettresearch

OK, but it still doesn't address for me the validity of Jesus being a human sacrifice sanctioned by God. It doesn't wash and just because Paul said so doesn't make it true.

How about Jesus, then?

John 12:27"Now My soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, 'Father, save Me from this hour'? But for this purpose I came to this hour. 28"Father, glorify Your name " Then a voice came out of heaven: "I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again." 29So the crowd of people who stood by and heard it were saying that it had thundered; others were saying, "An angel has spoken to Him." 30Jesus answered and said, "This voice has not come for My sake, but for your sakes. 31"Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. 32"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself." 33But He was saying this to indicate the kind of death by which He was to die.

Jesus knew that he came to earth to die. He says in the end of verse 27 that it was his purpose. How is that not sanctioned by God?

Originally Posted by Bennettresearch

If it were so, then it invalidates the story of Abraham and Isaac that puts and end to human sacrifice.

The story of Abraham and Isaac doesn't end with a human sacrifice. That's not the point of the story. It was a test of Abraham's faith. God wanted to see if Abraham would trust in God and have complete faith and obedience. Surely you don't think that God ever intended for Isaac to be killed as a human sacrifice, do you?

Originally Posted by Bennettresearch

There is much criticism in the OT about the pagan practice of sacrificing one's children as an abomination, mainly directed at the Canaanites. Are we to disregard this and say that ours sins must be cleansed by a human sacrifice? Not seeing it, sorry.

Because what you are describing is something wholly different from Jesus' crucifixion. Jesus commited no sin. He was without blemish (spiritually, that is). That is why It was necessary for him to be put to death. No other human has lived a sinless life. No other could take Jesus' place. I don't see why you are so confused...

If you don't think that Jesus' sacrifice was necessary, why do you call yourself a christian anyway?

[Bennettresearch]

Originally Posted by Linus

How about Jesus, then?

If you don't think that Jesus' sacrifice was necessary, why do you call yourself a christian anyway?

Hi Linus.

This is the response to the dogmatic insistence upon worshiping the crucifixion. What was lost after the crucifixion is the ministry of Jesus and Jesus being represented by others whose viewpoints quite evidently superceded those of Jesus Himself. My belief in Jesus is is predicated upon Him being a teacher and prophet.

As with all study of scripture and gospel, questions arise and there a many learned scholars who state that the Gospels were written with a political bias. This political bias is represented in defense of two positions.

1. That the Crucifixion was ordained by God

2. That the Cross symbolizes Christianity more than the teachings of Jesus.

Therefore, if I doubt,(not confused) that this is the real message that Jesus intended, it is what I have come to think on the subject after my personal studies. I have not closed the book yet, probably never will, but the preoccupation with blood sacrifice and the representation of it in Christianity is problematic. The question arises; If I am responsible for my own actions and face judgement, then why should I rely upon someone else, namely Jesus, to take the hit for me?

I think that salvation is reached through following Jesus and not through Him being sacrificed for my sins.