Sodom and Gomorra (Jesus, moral, Moses, Gomorrah, coffin)

[Ryan2065]

From another thread this was stated...

He has stopped it in the past, Soddom and Gomorrah, and he will again.

"it" refers to homosexuality, just to clarify.

I just wanted to start a thread on Sodom and Gomorra to point out the fact that God did not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah because the people there were homosexuals.

Gen 13:13 "But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly."

As you can see here they were just wicked and sinners, not homosexuals, though some of them might of been.

Gen 18:20-21
20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;

21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.


This also makes no mention of any homosexual acts what so ever.


Gen 19:4-17 (I won't quote it here because it is quite long)
Here god ALREADY decided that he wanted to kill everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah. The judgement was already passed. Lot was in the city to try and see if he could find 10 people worth saving, if not, god would kill everyone in the city. Two angels went with Lot and then a mob went around Lots house asking for the angels, long story short they wanted to basically rape the angels but the angels got out of there unhurt. Because of the judgement earlier, NOT because of the mob wanting to rape the angels, god destroyed the city. Lot was not able to find 10 people and escaped with his own life.


Just wanted to clear this up. This passage does not mean that god tried to kill homosexuals.

[JerryL]

It seems likely that the "nail in the coffin" sin was one of inhospitality. The people gathered to injure the visitors except for the one who put them up. They killed all but him.

You'll see the same moral in other mythologies (such as the a Greek myth which has Zeus and Posiedon posing as transients).

[Ryan2065]

Originally Posted by JerryL

It seems likely that the "nail in the coffin" sin was one of inhospitality. The people gathered to injure the visitors except for the one who put them up. They killed all but him.

You'll see the same moral in other mythologies (such as the a Greek myth which has Zeus and Posiedon posing as transients).

Right, but the fact remains that god said I'll destroy this city if you don't find me 10 people worthy of saving. The 10 wern't found so the city was destroyed. This had nothing to do with the inhospitality. This is of course assuming this story really did happen =)

[JerryL]

Right, but the fact remains that god said I'll destroy this city if you don't find me 10 people worthy of saving. The 10 wern't found so the city was destroyed. This had nothing to do with the inhospitality. This is of course assuming this story really did happen =)

Actually, the "10 people" I always found interesting. Considering Moses talking God down, I would have presumed the moral was something like "don't throw out the baby with the bathwater", but then, having found 4 worthy people, God destroys the city (admittedly letting the four run away first).

One wonders if there were any nice people in ghamorra. God never checked.

[anders]

http://www.brycerich.net/sodom/sodom.htm

Quoting it deletes all I write, so you read it. I'll just add a few things.

On the gender of the mob at Lot's house, Russian writes "inhabitants" and Hindi "people". To further point out that it is a mixed lot, not only male adults, the writer twice declares "young and old".

The sins of Sodom are enumerated in Ezechiel 16:49 and Jeremiah 23:14. Homosexuality is not mentioned, and it is not mentioned in the Talmud: Sanhedrin ch. 11 either. It's all about general unrighteousness and cruelty, and a few(!) mentionings of inhospitality.

[joeboonda]

Sodom and Gomorra were not destroyed for the exclusive sin of homsexuality, although when one reads Romans chapter 1, we see that as people turn from God he gives them over to sin, to a reprobate mind, men working with men that which is unnatural, and women with women. So, I assume there was some sexual sin there. Even 'just' Lot, after escaping, ended up being made drunk by his 2 daughters so they could get pregnant and carry on their family name. But, to the Jews, in the dispensation of the Law, the penalty was death. Now, under grace, the new testament still calls it a sin, but it says we ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. So, why pick on this one sin? If one believes the Bible is God's word, they would surely seem to see that it is considered a sin. But we all sin in many ways every day without trying, that is our sin nature we inherited from Adam and Eve. But thank God the free gift is that Christ paid for all our sins; died to pay for them, rose to give us power over them. We can, once we trust in what Jesus did on the cross, then begin to grow in grace, in freedom, and let the Holy Spirit teach us, and show us areas in our lives we need to deal with. We will not be perfect this side of Heaven, but we can grow, its just our willingness to listen to the Spirit, and obey.

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by joeboonda

But, to the Jews, in the dispensation of the Law, the penalty was death.

so is driving on Shabbat (a man is put to death for carrying fire wood on Shabbat [Num. 15:32]) but how often do you see that penalty enforced as well

[joeboonda]

Yes, yes, I am refering to a different time. I believe from the BIble, that there are different ages or dispensations to which God dealt in slightly different ways. LIke the age of innocence in the Garden, then, the age of conscience where all men did what was right in their own eyes, then the age of human government ending at Babel, then the age of promise to Abraham, next the age of the Law, where that penalty of death was given to Jews at that particular time, then theage of grace or the church age, then the 1,000yr reign of messiah which is the age of the kingdom, and finaly the world that will be forever and ever amen. Whenever a new age would be brought about, God would do something miraculous to show it was of him, and I am just speaking from a Biblical history, many theologians teach this, and it seems sound doctrine when I read the BIble.

[Halcyon]

I've always assumed the homosexuality theme of the sodom and gomorrah myth came about because for some reason people assumed the angels god sent were male.

The inhabitants turned down Lot's kind invitation for them to rape his virginal daughters and would rather have had sex with the male angels. Angel's are of course genderless, but people's interpretations have a habit of warping stories.

[JerryL]

The inhabitants turned down Lot's kind invitation for them to rape his virginal daughters and would rather have had sex with the male angels. Angel's are of course genderless, but people's interpretations have a habit of warping stories.

Of course, it's not clear who was outside the door. "All the people" would include women, and even "all the men and boys" would include the impotent.

Turning down the daughters is more likely about humiliating strangers (after all, they had each other to have sex with, it doesn't make sense from a sexual position that *all* would come), than it was about sexaual acts.