trinity, godhead, or neither (Jesus Christ, translation, Holy Spirit, Holy Ghost, bible)

[Aqualung]

That was a very nice point, Katzpur. That's way cool.

[michel]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

I can't imagine that this is what you mean. Would you mind clarifying?

*sigh*

I'll be glad to, using a quote from The Manual.

FOR THERE ARE THREE THAT BEAR RECORD IN HEAVEN, THE FATHER, THE WORD, AND THE HOLY GHOST: AND THESE THREE ARE ONE.

Full circle!

[Harvster]

Aqualung,

Where you state that the ‘Godhead’ is three distinct persons united in mind, purpose etc, I believe that the ‘Trinity’ is three distinct persons (hypotates [for explanation on the word refer to IacobPersuls reply earlier in this thread]) that are one substance or essence. Unfortunately it is extremely hard to explain and trying to explain it can confound the meaning even further. The diagram I referred you to is the best way of explaining it. I know that it is a rather long link however I do recommend you read it as it gives a better way of explaining what I believe than what I can do as I am not a theologian.

Harvs

[michel]

Originally Posted by Harvster

Aqualung,

Where you state that the ‘Godhead’ is three distinct persons united in mind, purpose etc, I believe that the ‘Trinity’ is three distinct persons (hypotates [for explanation on the word refer to IacobPersuls reply earlier in this thread]) that are one substance or essence. Unfortunately it is extremely hard to explain and trying to explain it can confound the meaning even further. The diagram I referred you to is the best way of explaining it. I know that it is a rather long link however I do recommend you read it as it gives a better way of explaining what I believe than what I can do as I am not a theologian.

Harvs

Thank you, Harvs

[Harvster]

Katzpur,
Great post I agree 100%. The way it is written is the way it should be interpreted in that sense. I can see what AV1611 is saying however, I believe that this is a prime example were we see that each person of the Trinity has their own role to serve and cannot take the role of another unless the bible states as such i.e Christ being the creator. It's one of those things that never ends and gives you a headache.

Harvs

[Aqualung]

Originally Posted by Harvster

Aqualung,

Where you state that the ‘Godhead’ is three distinct persons united in mind, purpose etc, I believe that the ‘Trinity’ is three distinct persons (hypotates [for explanation on the word refer to IacobPersuls reply earlier in this thread]) that are one substance or essence. Unfortunately it is extremely hard to explain and trying to explain it can confound the meaning even further. The diagram I referred you to is the best way of explaining it. I know that it is a rather long link however I do recommend you read it as it gives a better way of explaining what I believe than what I can do as I am not a theologian.

Harvs

Okay, I'll try to read it. Since I can't thnk how it could be seperate persons, but still the same substance. The triangle with bob, joe, and peter, all being humans, seemed to be the same (god, jesus, and spirit all being "god") but joe, bob, and peter are all seperate beings.

[James the Persian]

Originally Posted by Aqualung

Okay, I'll try to read it. Since I can't thnk how it could be seperate persons, but still the same substance. The triangle with bob, joe, and peter, all being humans, seemed to be the same (god, jesus, and spirit all being "god") but joe, bob, and peter are all seperate beings.

This is the problem caused by translating Hypostasis into English as person - in English the word person includes both their substance (essence, if you like) and whatever makes them a unique person. Hypostasis includes only the latter idea, which is why I dislike saying person in this context (besides the fact that 'person' in Greek is a different word entirely).

In effect my person (me, the unique individual) is comprised of my human essence (the nature common to all humans) and my personal hypostasis, that which makes me uniquely me. God, if you're a Trinitarian, is comprised of His uniquely Divine Essence and the three Hypostases that are uniquely the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. God, then is neither a monad nor a collection of three, individual beings, but what He is is rather difficult to explain (and I still don't think I've managed it here, but who knows?)

James

[Aqualung]

Originally Posted by IacobPersul

In effect my person (me, the unique individual) is comprised of my human essence (the nature common to all humans) and my personal hypostasis, that which makes me uniquely me. God, if you're a Trinitarian, is comprised of His uniquely Divine Essence and the three Hypostases that are uniquely the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. God, then is neither a monad nor a collection of three, individual beings, but what He is is rather difficult to explain (and I still don't think I've managed it here, but who knows?)

James

Oh! That all makes sense now. Thanks for the different wording, James. Sometimes all you need is a new pair of eyes. So I guess (if you think the same as harvster. Is that correct?) that we actually don't see it the same way.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by AV1611

*sigh*

Is my ignorance frustrating you, AV? I'm sorry, but I'm doing my best to understand.

I'll be glad to, using a quote from The Manual.

FOR THERE ARE THREE THAT BEAR RECORD IN HEAVEN, THE FATHER, THE WORD, AND THE HOLY GHOST: AND THESE THREE ARE ONE.

Full circle!

To me, it seems more like going around in circles!

You still haven't answered the question I posed a long time ago: In what way are they "one"?

Since I use the same "manual" as you do, I also believe that they are "one." But I believe I have explained how they are "one," whereas you just keep saying essentially the same thing over and over again without addressing my question.

By the way, what have I done during the last few days to irritate you? I really would like to know. There has been a very obvious change in your attitude towards me lately, and I don't know why.

Kathryn