trinity, godhead, or neither (Jesus Christ, translation, Holy Spirit, Holy Ghost, bible)

[jonny]

Originally Posted by IacobPersul

This is slightly bonkers. The word Trinity means precisely the same thing as triunity, it means three in one. We use the word triune as well, as in the phrase 'the Triune God', triune being the adjectival form of Trinity, but there's really no need to change the noun used - you're not gaining anything (except one superfluous vowel).

One thing I have noticed on this thread is that two false understandings of what the Trinity doctrine is have come up. First, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not aspects of one being - that belief is called modalism and is a monist rather than Trinitarian belief. Second, the three Divine Hypostases (usually, and poorly, translated into English as Persons) are not separate beings - that would be Tritheism. The actual doctrine of the Trinity is that God is one Essence in three Persons. This seems strange to us as a human being is one person, but nonetheless, that is what the Trinity says: God is one in three Persons. Every person we know here is one in Essence (that being their humanity) and one person (that being their actual self). God is uniquely Divine in Essence but is three unique Persons (actually, not really as the word Hypostasis does not mean what we mean by person as that includes their essence, but English doesn't have a better word for the concept).

I have no idea whether this seems at all clear - it's a difficult concept to explain and I'm no theologian - but I hope that people will see the difference between the three positions outlined above.

James

Thanks for the clarification - it still isn't clear to me, but I don't think the purpose of the trinity doctrine was to clarify anything. If it did anything it made what was already vague in the scriptures more vague and confusing.

[michel]

Trinity, for me.

[michel]

Originally Posted by Maize

Colossians 2:9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form. (NIV)

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. (KJV)

[Green Gaia]

Originally Posted by AV1611

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. (KJV)

Difference in interpretation. What's your point? Either way it is not sufficient evidence for deifying Jesus.

[michel]

Originally Posted by Maize

Difference in interpretation. What's your point? Either way it is not sufficient evidence for deifying Jesus.

Well if that's not enough Scripture to convince you that Jesus is God, simply add more:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us - John 1:1,14

... only begotten Son ... - John 1:18; 3:16,18; Hebrews 11:7; 1 John 4:9

I and my Father are one - John 10:30

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. - 1 Timothy 3:16

Howbeit Jesus suffered him [maniac of Gadara] not, but saith unto him, Go home to thy friends, and tell them how great things the Lord hath done for thee, and hath had compassion on thee. And he departed and began to publish in Decapolis how great things Jesus had done for him: and all men did marvel. - Mark 5:19-20

To name just a few.

[may]

Originally Posted by IacobPersul

Those word both be from the same book that tells us that the Word was with God was God and Incarnated as Jesus Christ, right?

James

The word, who is Jesus christ ,is Jehovah Gods spokeman and he was in the heavens with JehovahGod before he came to the earth as a man.
Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man...john 3;13


(John 6:38) because I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me

(John 8:23) So he went on to say to them: "YOU are from the realms below; I am from the realms above. YOU are from this world; I am not from this world.

(John 8:42) Jesus said to them: "If God were YOUR Father, YOU would love me, for from God I came forth and am here. Neither have I come of my own initiative at all, but that One sent me forth.

(1 Corinthians 15:47) The first man is out of the earth and made of dust; the second man is out of heaven.

(Ephesians 4:9) Now the expression "he ascended," what does it mean but that he also descended into the lower regions, that is, the earth?.....and when he was down here his Fathers voice from heaven said

(Matthew 3:17) Look! Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: "This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved."

(Luke 9:35) And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: "This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him."..........so the bible tells me that there is Jehovah God and his son Jesus christ

[Green Gaia]

Originally Posted by AV1611

Well if that's not enough Scripture to convince you that Jesus is God, simply add more.

Quanity does not always equal quality. Sorry I do not have time to answer all these individually. Luckily someone else has already done the work. Have a nice read.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us - John 1:1,

http://biblicalunitarian.com/html/mo...howpage&pid=85

John 1:14

http://biblicalunitarian.com/html/mo...howpage&pid=88

... only begotten Son ... - John 1:18; 3:16,18;

http://biblicalunitarian.com/html/mo...howpage&pid=90

Hebrews 11:7;

By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith. Perhaps you meant another verse?

I and my Father are one - John 10:30

http://biblicalunitarian.com/html/mo...owpage&pid=102

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. - 1 Timothy 3:16

http://biblicalunitarian.com/html/mo...owpage&pid=132

[michel]

Originally Posted by Maize

Quanity does not always equal quality. Sorry I do not have time to answer all these individually. Luckily someone else has already done the work. Have a nice read.

No problem, Maize. Every one of those sites had to go "outside the book" to prove its case. That's because the KJV is a closed system, immune from outside interference. In other words, you have to go to outside sources (Greek, NIV] to "prove" it wrong. (I know, it's circular logic. I've heard that before, and frankly, I'm wondering if that's not so bad a claim.)

I'll leave you with this little ditty I once made up, to demonstrate how you sound:

Bob takes Sue to a Greek restaurant:

Waitress: May I take your order?
Sue: I'll have the Perch Dinner.
Bob: ewww! I didn't know you liked 'eel'.
Sue: eel? I ordered Perch.
Bob: No, you ordered 'eel'.
Sue: ???
Waitress: Yes, Perch comes from the word perchea, which means 'eel'.
Sue: But it says 'Perch' in English???
Waitress: Yes, but you gotta understand Greek if your're gonna eat here.
Sue: Then what do you suggest?
Bob: Try the eriea, it means: denizen of Lake Erie; perch