Free Will in Heaven? (reject, Satan, God, devil)

[bartdanr]

Originally Posted by Victor

Great topic.
Free will in heaven is certainly hard to imagine because we attach and dwell ourselves to worldly things which gets us into trouble. Once a person is in heaven the only thing that fulfills him/her is God's Love. Everything else is but nothing compared to it. The details are unknown, but this is as best as I could muster.
Humans beings move toward pleasure and run from pain. It's an innate ability that we have. This may kick in to the highest degree in heaven.

~Victor

HI Victor, thanks for the post.

Why do you think that we run away from God's love sometimes in this life? Why do we not find it fulfilling here? And why would Satan run away from God's love when he rebelled against God in heaven? (That is, if you believe in a Satanic fall from glory.) How would we be different from Satan and not be subject to falling from glory?

Peace

[EnhancedSpirit]

Originally Posted by bartdanr

HI Victor, thanks for the post.

Why do you think that we run away from God's love sometimes in this life?

Because we were told we are not worthy. We become ashamed of our sins.

Originally Posted by bartdanr

Why do we not find it fulfilling here?

To feel fulfilled, one must be fulfilling one's purpose. If your career choice is based on what your parents wanted, and not what you were born to do, no matter how much effort you put into it, you will never feel fulfilled, and the whole thing will prbably blow up in your face way down the road. This is because you have a job that was not meant for you, which means it really belongs to someone else, which means you have inadvertantly taken something away from someone, and Karma will balance out.

Originally Posted by bartdanr

And why would Satan run away from God's love when he rebelled against God in heaven? (That is, if you believe in a Satanic fall from glory.) How would we be different from Satan and not be subject to falling from glory?
Peace

First, there is a difference between Satan and Lucifer. One was an angel who fell, the other was a liar from the beginning. Satan was made by God to forge our spirits. He is a negative force of nature. Lucifer was an Angel who fell sin to pride. And we are all in Danger of this. When you start feeling the power of God work through you, you start to feel somewhat invincible, it becomes very hard to remain humble, and all too easy to fall victim to sinful pride. It's a tricky one, because it sneaks in the back door as 'self-confidence'.

[jonny]

Originally Posted by EnhancedSpirit

First, there is a difference between Satan and Lucifer. One was an angel who fell, the other was a liar from the beginning.

Some people do believe that Lucifer and Satan are the same. My church teaches the Lucifer, the Son of the Morning, rebelled against God. A "war in heaven" insued and 1/3 of the hosts of heaven were cast out with Lucifer. At this point he became Satan.

We believe that Lucifer rebelled because when God asked who would go to earth to save us from our sins, that Lucifer volunteered and promised that he would force us to do good. He would take all the glory. Christ volunteered and said that the glory would be God's. When our Heavenly Father chose Christ over Lucifer, he rebelled.

What I think is interesting in this story is that even Christ had Free Will. He chose from the beginning to come and redeem us from our sins. Lucifer wanted to take our free agency from us. Free agency was so important to God that there was a 'war' over it before any of us came to earth.

[CMIYC]

Originally Posted by bartdanr

Hi All,

Do you believe we will have free will in heaven? If so, what is to prevent evil from coming into heaven? Will people be so changed so that though they will be free, they will never choose evil? If it is possible to be free and never choose evil, then why weren't we made this way to begin with?

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Peace

Free will; do you honestly think this is possible?

the ability to decide what to do independently of any outside influence

to give freely without asking anything in return.

Not according to the bible its not.

[joeboonda]

I cor 15:51-58: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God which giveth us the victory through our Lord jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 21:1-3 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I, John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain; for the former things are passed away.

I Thessalonians 4:13-18: But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent(go before) them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first; Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

I Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Once our bodies are changed, and we put on incorruption and immortality, we become free of sin, once we see God's great Love and plan revealed, and what he has in store for us, and the total grossness of evil and sin, and death and hell are done away with, we will not sin nor want to, nor be capable to. We will have freedom like we never had before too, but we see through a glass darkly, but then, we shall see face to face and understand. PEACE!

[mr.guy]

Originally Posted by Victor

Great topic.
Free will in heaven is certainly hard to imagine because we attach and dwell ourselves to worldly things which gets us into trouble. Once a person is in heaven the only thing that fulfills him/her is God's Love. Everything else is but nothing compared to it.

So what do you do in heaven? make moon eyes at god all day and night for eternity? no hockey? If one wants to go to heaven, is it worth weighing the possibility that it might be more boring than hell?

[Victor]

Originally Posted by mr.guy

So what do you do in heaven? make moon eyes at god all day and night for eternity? no hockey? If one wants to go to heaven, is it worth weighing the possibility that it might be more boring than hell?

Aside from what I said already, beats me. I just know I'll like it and I'll be completely fulfilled. No more trying to fill my cup with worldly things that never seem to satisfy me. Who knows, you might have the flying monks vs. the speedy priests in a hockey duel... Without the fighting of course.

~Victor

[michel]

Originally Posted by bartdanr

Thanks for the reply, jonny.

Good answer--except it brings up two questions: (1) we know in this life we can choose good, then choose evil again, and waffle back and forth. In other words, not only are none of us perfect, but none of us become perfect in this life. If we just happen to die waffling on the side of good, is that really a choice for "good"? What happens to us in heaven where we become perfect and no longer chose evil?

(2) Why didn't God set things up like that eventual state to begin with, rather than go through the messiness of the current world? Was God unable to create us perfect, yet free? Was it necessary for us to actually experience choice in order to chose good?

This leads to a third question: (3) Now, if you are a universalist, then this isn't applicable: but why did God bother making the people who would not eventually chose good?

Peace

I certainly believe that that is the whole point of life.

I don't believe that at the end of time - if there is such a thing, there will be anyone who won't choose Good; it might take then a while to get there......

[Aqualung]

Originally Posted by bartdanr

Thanks for your reply, Aqualung.

If all (or most) evil comes from the temptation of the devil, then why does God allow him to exist now? Does he serve a necessary function this side of heaven? In other words, unless the devil existed for this time, a heaven full of free but good beings could not exist?

Peace

Yes, he does have a necessary purpose. The purpose of us being here is to learn and progress and to prove to God that, even under tribulation, that we will be faithful. Most of us won't be faithful the whole time, which is where Jesus' grace comes in, but we still do need to show how well we can behave, even with tribulation.

[Radar]

we will not sin nor want to, nor be capable to. We will have freedom like we never had before

How is that freedom? You have freedom now to do as you please. You can choose what ever you want to do. In heaven will you be able to choose how you want to worship? Will you be able to sleep in besides going to church? Or will the whole time be worshipping and attending church? My point being heaven is unknowable, god is unknowable. That is the thing about religion you have faith that there is a heaven. I don't know if there is a heaven and don't care. I choose to live this life and love this life and to do as please in this life. But I will do so with respect for others.