Jesus is God? (Messiah, HaShem, crucifixion, Kingdom, Jehovah)

[Khale]

I know that there are a good many christians out their who believe that those who follow the jewish religion need to be saved because they do not worship Jesus. So, quick question:

Jesus is God(YHWH). It seems to me that we are worshipping the same deity. Am I correct? Why or why not?

[Scuba Pete]

You are correct.

You are waiting for the messiah we claim has already come.

[goodjewishboy]

Is the world at peace right now? Has it ever been since the coming of Jesus? There are many reasons Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah. I'm not going to go into all of them now but I will make a couple points. I think the biggest one is that the messiach will mark the coming of Ein Sof, the healing of the world, where nation shall not fight against nation, swords shall be beaten into plowshares, etc.

Another sticking point is the whole idea of the divinity of jesus and the necessity to believe in him as such to be 'saved' from some kind of hell. Personally, that whole concept does not make much sense to me. Judaism does not compel any particular belief in the hopes of future reward. I try to do good for the sake of bringing myself closer to HaShem in this life, to do my part in making this world a better place.

I do not deny that Jesus was not a good person, and I could possibly be convinced of his prophethood, but I can't be convinced in his divinity or his claims to being messiach.

[joeboonda]

Could it be that the Messiah came first to pay for the sin of the world, and will come again to rule and bring peace? There are over 300 prophecies concerning the Messiah in the Old Testament that were fulfilled in Jesus. How about Isaiah chapter 53, have you read that? There are 27 prophecies in the old testament concerning the events of the crucifixion alone. If you are at all interested, I could list some with the verses, let me know. Jesus was always explaining that he must first suffer in order to fulfill all the Old Testament prophecies, but they didn't get it because they were looking for the Glorious Messiah who would set up his Kingdom. Not until he was ressurected, did they understand. Anyway, just tell me if you need some verses that have the prophecies about him in the Old Testament, I know you believe in the Old Testament, right?

[Khale]

I understand that there are disagreements on who the messiah is, but I don't believe the scriptures, hebrew or christian, require us to worship the messiah. As I see it we are to worship God. While the messiah is an important individual and may be God in human form we are still supposed to be worshipping God, not his human form.

Originally Posted by joeboonda

There are 27 prophecies in the old testament concerning the events of the crucifixion alone. If you are at all interested, I could list some with the verses, let me know.

I would love to hear these prophecies, but could you post them in a new thread so as not to clutter this one?

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by joeboonda

Jesus was always explaining that he must first suffer in order to fulfill all the Old Testament prophecies, but they didn't get it because they were looking for the Glorious Messiah who would set up his Kingdom

there is nothing about the death of jesus that fits with the prophecies of the Moshiach ben David. The Moshiach will be a king, like David before him, he will bring in the jews back to the land of Eretz Yisrael, reestablish the temple and it's services, and rule over the nation as a king, and then he will die and his son will rule after him, and so on and so on.

like GJB i do not deny that he was a good person, and IMPO i believe he may have been a messenger sent by HaShem to bring His message to the non-jewish world (which it has along w/ islam)
but i do not believe he is Moshiach nor do i believe him to be G-d incarnate or something else...

[JOSEF THE PROPHET]

CHRIST IS A GOD. NOT AS GREAT AS JEHOVAH (THE FATHER), BUT GOD NONETHELESS.

[Khale]

Originally Posted by JOSEF THE PROPHET

CHRIST IS A GOD. NOT AS GREAT AS JEHOVAH (THE FATHER), BUT GOD NONETHELESS.

Please, elaborate on this (preferably in lower case). Why is Christ less than God? Why is he a god? Are you suggesting that there are multiple gods?

[CDB]

"Please, elaborate on this (preferably in lower case). Why is Christ less than God? Why is he a god? Are you suggesting that there are multiple gods?"

There is only one God.
He is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
He is a singular entity with a singular personality.

Trinitarians try to make God three persons in one God - God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
This is impossible, since a son cannot be his own father and God has no father, therefore the son cannot be The Father.

In a way however, you can say Jesus IS God.
His Father is God, and since he has no blood/substance in him other than God's (Mary was nothing more than an incubator for the flesh body that became Jesus the man) therefore he is God ENTIRELY. The Bible says that Jesus' Father is the Holy Ghost (therefore if God is Jesus' Father, then God IS the Holy Spirit/Ghost, but NOT the second person of the Godhead, otherwise God is a schizo!)

His LIFE however is his own (John 5:26 explicitly states this), and is very much separate to his Father's.

He is the complete and full expression of God - that's why Jesus said 'if you see me you've seen the Father'.

So he is equal to God, but is not God, since (once more the the dumb ones) you can't be your own Father and there is only ONE God!

[Mr. Peanut]

Note the following. Jesus read HALF of a scripture from Isaiah, and said that this day this scripture is fulfilled in your ears:

Luke 4
16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

At his First Coming, Jesus fulfilled half this scripture and said so, the other half he shall fulfill at his Second Coming:

Isaiah 61:

First Half: fulfilled at his First Coming:

1The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,

Second half: to be fulfilled at his Second Coming:

(2 cont.)and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; 3To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.

See then, Jesus came first to set us free by dying for our sins. Next time he will come in judgement and the restitution of all things. And the lion shall lay down with the lamb and a little child shall lead them, etc. This is yet to be...