Jesus is God? (Messiah, HaShem, crucifixion, Kingdom, Jehovah)

[Dirty Penguin]

Originally Posted by crystalonyx

It is generally accepted among all historical scholars that Luke and Matthew were simply rewrites of Mark, from these unknown authors personal bias.

Well put, frubal....

[Muffled]

Originally Posted by Dirty Penguin

Well put, frubal....

It is nice that you believe in "general acceptance." Since the Trinity is a generally accepted belief does that make that valid also or do you just accept the "general acceptance" that you like?

[Dirty Penguin]

Originally Posted by Muffled

Since the Trinity is a generally accepted belief does that make that valid also or do you just accept the "general acceptance" that you like?

Huh?...What?....

Just because the trinity concept is "generally" accepted doesn't make it, by any means, true.....

It's not that I accepted anything. The concept of trinity has not been shown to be biblical. That in itself is "generally" accepted. Do you accept it? I'm quite sure you don't. There's no basis to conclude, from your scriptures, that God, Yeshua or the holy spirit are triune but one deity. None of the four gospels support it nor does the book of revelation support it.

[alexander garcia]

I worship ONE, you worship THREE!

[Dirty Penguin]

Originally Posted by alexander garcia

I worship ONE, you worship THREE!

Welcome to the forum. It's always nice to get the jewish perspective here.

[Muffled]

Originally Posted by alexander garcia

I worship ONE, you worship THREE!

I worship Yahweh, you worship the Law which is not the same thing even though Jesus said He was the fulfillment (embodiment) of the Law, the Law itself is only a subset of all that Yahweh has to say. On the other hand all that Yahweh has to say is characterized by John as the Logos (Word) which became flesh in the person of Jesus.

[Dirty Penguin]

Originally Posted by Muffled

I worship Yahweh, you worship the Law which is not the same thing

Just because he adheres to the "law" doesn't mean he doesn't worship his god.

Originally Posted by Muffled

even though Jesus said He was the fulfillment (embodiment) of the Law, the Law itself is only a subset of all that Yahweh has to say.

And I guess it all depends on your interpretation of "fulfillment"....I take it to mean he was the seal or completion of the law. No more laws were to come.

American Heritage Dictionary

Fulfill
To bring to an end: to complete

Additionally when you quoted Yeshua you should have completed the quote. Here's the rest of it;

Matthew 5:17-19
17 "Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to fulfill them.

18 I assure you, until heaven and earth disappear, even the smallest detail of God's law will remain until its purpose is achieved.

19 So if you break the smallest commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God's laws and teaches them will be great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Nowhere does he say the laws should not be observed but on the contrary he warns against not obeying the laws and teaching other to do so. "No law will disappear until it is finished". He says the law has not achieved its purpose so it is to remain in effect.

Revelation 21:1
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the old heaven and the old earth had disappeared. And the sea was also gone.

[emiliano]

If Jesus isn’t God we are all lost/unsaved!

[ayani]

Jesus does clearly say that He and God are One, and that those who have Seen Him have seen God. He was from God and of God- to those who doubted this, He would indicate the signs and miracles, and ask if any demon could or would drive away evil, and heal the suffering- such a power can come only from God, not from an enemy who seeks to destroy. how can evil drive out evil- a house divided can not stand.

i believe that Jesus was God's Living Word- the message and the messenger. Jesus, unlike Muhammad and others claiming prophet-hood, did not come with a text, but with His own life- as an example of service, poverty, piety, and giving everything over to God and to His brothers and sisters. God showed the world the way to and of Himself through Jesus- if we follow Jesus truly, we must be like Him, serve God and serve one another, and speak Jesus' name and gospel to all creatures.

was Jesus God- well, Jesus did not worship Himself, but others worshiped and adored Him as God's Son, messenger, and as Saviour. i am very new at faith, and i'm no theologian. only God is good- so to call Jesus good is to admit that He is of God, and that God bears witness to His claim that He is of God and sent by God. good trees can not bear bad fruit, but good fruit. and Jesus' fruit was wonderfully good, in His living example, His signs and miracles, in His words, in His sacrifice, and His resurrection from the dead.

i know i'm not a trinitarian, but i do believe Jesus was God's Son. if one believes the Gospels, God Himself says so, and Jesus says so- and Jesus' promises to heal, reconcile, and give peace are true- so why not this claim, as well? certainly i can say that Jesus is from God, of God, and knew God's Word, so that He spoke it to those who came to Him, and brought the good news of that kingdom of God to us- that we might hear, and believe, and have new and ever-lasting life in Him.

[Mister Emu]

There's no basis to conclude, from your scriptures, that God, Yeshua or the holy spirit are triune but one deity. None of the four gospels support it nor does the book of revelation support it.

My scriptures are restricted to the Bible, and I can say that the basis is there and very obvious... While the biblical scriptures do not say plainly "Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are one God in seperate hypostases", everything to point there is.