Jesus is God? (Messiah, HaShem, crucifixion, Kingdom, Jehovah) - Page 3

FFH · #21 03-25-2008, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDB

'Jehovah is God the Son (Christ)
Elohim is God the Father.'

You either have two Gods, or you have the Son being his own Father.

Please explain this impossibility. Backed up with scripture.

We can become gods, but we can never be God our Father or his Son Jesus Christ, who is God the Son and God of the Old Testament.

Jesus Christ is the one who spoke with Moses, and gave him the ten commandments, not God the Father. God the Father directs Jesus Christ in all things pertaining to this earth.

When God the Father appeared to Joseph Smith, he said, "This is my beloved Son, hear him".

God the Father has turned all things pertaining to this earth over to Jesus Christ, who acts in the name of God the Father, just as we act in the name of Jesus Christ when we perform any sacred saving ordinance, like baptism.

Katzpur · #22 03-25-2008, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDB

'Jehovah is God the Son (Christ)
Elohim is God the Father.'

You either have two Gods, or you have the Son being his own Father.

Please explain this impossibility. Backed up with scripture.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

In the beginning there was Jesus, and He was with God, and He was himself God. He was not His own Father because He and His Father were separate beings. In the New Testament, they are both spoken of as God. God is a title we use to denote any or all of the members of the Godhead. "God" is actually a synonymn for "Godhead" and "Godhead" is a collective noun, like team or partnership. Because it is clearly impossible to be with one's self, the Son and the Father, who were with each other in the beginning, are two separate divine beings who share the title of "God."

CDB · #23 03-25-2008, 11:24 PM

'because it is clearly impossible to be with one's self, the Son and the Father, who were with each other in the beginning, are two separate divine beings who share the title of "God."'

So you have two Gods! Do you believe there are two Gods?

Perhaps John 1 doesn't mean what you think it means, or scripture is contradicting itself.

' When God the Father appeared to Joseph Smith, he said, "This is my beloved Son, hear him".'

Joseph Smith says he saw God - impossible, because:
John 1:18 (King James Version) 'No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.'

A Mormon has told me categorically that the Book of Moroni and the Bible absolutely match, but there appears to be an error somewhere.

Popeyesays · #24 03-26-2008, 12:00 AM

The meaning of the John 1 passage hinges on whaqt the "Word" might be.

Regards,
Scott

CDB · #25 03-26-2008, 04:12 AM

'John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.'

It says point blank that God is the WORD.
And since you cannot see God, you behold his glory through the only begotten of the Father.
That's why Jesus said: 'if you've seen me you've seen the Father'.

At the same time the Son IS God made flesh, because he is the express (or complete) image of God's person:

Hebrews 1:3
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high'

If a woman could have children without a sperm from a man, then her children would be exact genetic replicas of herself.
So it is with God. God made an exact replica of himself.

The Son looks EXACTLY like God, because he has no mother, only a Father - God the Father. The BIG difference between them is in John 5:26:

'For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself'.

The Father has LIFE (the source of ALL Life) and HE gives to the Son to have his OWN life.

Also notice the Bible never calls him 'God the Son': it's ALWAYS 'Son of God'.

Even the devils recognised him as Son of God in the wilderness! And Satan is an EXPERT on the scriptures:

Matthew 4:3

3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

Luke 4:41
And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

Popeyesays · #26 03-26-2008, 05:46 AM

The word in Greek is "Logos" which means the creative word. God was single and alone, with the desire to create. The "Word" was "BE" and all that is was made "Flesh" or "Material". The stars were made "Flesh" as was all else that ever was.

Which fits nicely with the concept of the "Bang".

Regards,
Scott

Popeyesays · #27 03-26-2008, 05:52 AM

"Matthew 4:3

3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

Luke 4:41
And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ."

Note that it does not say Christ was "GOD", but the Son of God, a very brilliant image and symbol.

I would point out that under the concepts of the Old Testament I also, am the son of God.

And note that "Christ" is Greek for "Annointed" or "Messiah".

Regards,
Scott

Dirty Penguin · #28 03-26-2008, 07:32 AM

Going on biblical text alone It was always stated that God was one and there is no other. God, in the old testament, refutes the new assertions that there were other gods with him.

Isaiah 43:10
......I am He; before Me there was no god formed, neither shall any be after Me

Isaiah 45:5, 6
I am the lord, and there is none else, beside Me there is no god.......

.......there is none beside Me; I am the lord; and there is none else.

Isaiah 45:21, 22
.......And there is no god else beside me,.......

.......I am god, and there is none else.

There're plenty more verses but I'm quite sure you all are familiar with most of them. So the bible teaches that there is only one god. There are no other gods nor will there be any other gods.

Popeyesyas there is credibility in what you say about (The Word). I've always viewed "the word" as god's command or commandment. It was Yeshua who said that he had given them God's word which was not of this world. He was not talking about himself.

John 17:14
I have given them your word; and the world has hated them (God's word) because they (God's word - not Yeshua or Yeshua's word) are not of the world, even as I (Yeshua) am not of the world.

To view who Yeshua was in relation to God one only has to look to his prayer to his god in all of John chapter 17. One thing is quite clear that we find throughout the book of John and that is Yeshua informs us that in heaven he is separate, he had his own will, he was taught by his god, he was given a task (to deliver the word of God), he was sent (which is constantly expressed by Yeshua), he was "commanded" what he should say and once he had completed the task God gave him he informed God that god's will was done.

Katzpur · #29 03-26-2008, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDB

'because it is clearly impossible to be with one's self, the Son and the Father, who were with each other in the beginning, are two separate divine beings who share the title of "God."'

So you have two Gods! Do you believe there are two Gods?

Why would you quote me and then ask me the same question all over again? If you can't read and understand a straightforward answer, there is little point in my repeating it.

Quote:

Perhaps John 1 doesn't mean what you think it means, or scripture is contradicting itself.

Perhaps you're the o