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#251
04-12-2008, 12:01 AM
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This is a phrase consistent with several of the Gospel accounts. In John's Gospel chapter 2 it says:
" 18Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? 19Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21But he spake of the temple of his body. 22When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said. " Matthew 26: "61And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days. 62And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee? 63But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. 64Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. " And Mark 14: " 57And there arose certain, and bare false witness against him, saying, 58We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands. 59But neither so did their witness agree together. 60And the high priest stood up in the midst, and asked Jesus, saying, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee? 61But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? 62And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. " It probably does deserve a thread of it's own. I find it interesting for a couple reasons. First, it makes a very solid reference to the Temple of Man. Second, whenever Jesus is accused of being the "Son of God", He always refers to Himself as "The SOn of Man". Regards, Scott
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Author, Sword of the Dajjal, e-book, from http://www.booksforabuck.com/sfpages...rd_dajjal.html http://www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook47261.htm?cached Jars of Doom Jan., 2008 Champagne Books I Blog!: http://cscottsaylorsbooks.blogspot.com/ 
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#252
04-13-2008, 01:50 PM
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Your own Paul, who I will admitt seems to also be confused at times, said that it was God that raised Yeshua....Not Yeshua himself... Romans 10:9 For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up.... Acts 4:10 Jesus Christ ... whom God raised from the dead.... Acts 13:30 But God raised him from the dead. Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead Colossians 2:12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 1 Thessalonians 1:10 ... his Son ... whom he raised from the dead. Yeshua raised or God raised?.....Regardless of who did the raising none of it has to do with Yeshua being God considering all of the other passages of him expressing himself separate from God.
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Mother Night Fold Your Dark Arms About Me Protect Me In Your Black Embrace. I Sit Alone an Exile Whilst This Force This Presence Returns To Torment Me. Last edited by Dirty Penguin; 04-14-2008 at 08:15 AM.
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#253
04-15-2008, 01:07 AM
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You can come up with many interpretations of the bible saying Jesus isn't God. Heck, I can show you where the bible talks about buggers. If I ever need a concordance of Scripture that says Jesus isn't God, this thread is it. My question is why the white lambs without defect? God got mad when the Israelites tried to use lambs with defect.
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 Drummers ROCK!!!
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#254
04-15-2008, 10:07 AM
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This is true in the sense of the omnipresence of God. Our finite state limits our ability to see the inifinity of God. On the contrary, it makes perfect sense. Philip asked Jesus to show them the Father. Since Jesus is the embodiment of the Father it makes sense that He would say so. Moses saw God, "face to face" Ex 34:5 ¶ And Jehovah descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of Jehovah. Last edited by Muffled; 04-15-2008 at 10:08 AM. Reason: color
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#255
04-15-2008, 12:33 PM
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He was God's representative who God taught what to say and sent to relay the message. Quote:
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You have a remarkable lack of understanding when it come to your scripture. Even if you tried your hardest, that verse would never say or mean what you say it does. Why is it that I know your scripture better than you and I'm not even a christian, muslim or a jew??????? Now observe and LEARN SOMETHING FOR A CHANGE....instead of believeing everything you hear......Moses DID NOT SEE THE FACE OF HIS god...... If he did then that would crtradict what your god said in the chapter before the one you quoted..... Exodus 33:19:23 19 The LORD replied, "I will make all my goodness pass before you, and I will call out my name, `the LORD,' to you. I will show kindness to anyone I choose, and I will show mercy to anyone I choose. 20 "But you may not look directly at my face, for no one may see me and live." 21 The LORD continued, "Stand here on this rock beside me". 22 As my glorious presence passes by, I will put you in the cleft of the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed. 23 Then I will remove my hand, and you will see me from behind. But my face will not be seen." The next chapter where you quoted actually picks up where God has come down in the "presence" of Moses but as described in the previous chpater. Moses NEVER saw his face. How can we trust in your preception of Yeshua and who he was when you don't even know your own scripture. And speaking of Yeshua, if you truly believed Moses saw the face of God and lived then it would make Yeshua a liar....who must not have known the scripture. And since you believe Yeshua is God, did your god forget that Moses saw his face, (as you claim)? John 1:18 No one has ever seen God,........... Was Yeshua lieing, forgot or did he just misunderstand?
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Mother Night Fold Your Dark Arms About Me Protect Me In Your Black Embrace. I Sit Alone an Exile Whilst This Force This Presence Returns To Torment Me. Last edited by Dirty Penguin; 04-15-2008 at 12:38 PM.
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#256
04-15-2008, 07:56 PM
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Yeshua and his god were one in purpose but not one in the same.......as Yeshua prayed to his god that ALL of his followers would be one with them.....
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Mother Night Fold Your Dark Arms About Me Protect Me In Your Black Embrace. I Sit Alone an Exile Whilst This Force This Presence Returns To Torment Me.
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#257
04-16-2008, 08:59 AM
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[quote=Dirty Penguin;1126145]
Where in that verse does it say "Moses" saw the face of God? I have charged that you and christians like you don't quote your own scripture correctly because you don't know it or you fail to read in context. Nowhere in that verse does it say Moses saw the face of God. You have a remarkable lack of understanding when it come to your scripture. Even if you tried your hardest, that verse would never say or mean what you say it does. Why is it that I know your scripture better than you and I'm not even a christian, muslim or a jew??????? Now observe and LEARN SOMETHING FOR A CHANGE....instead of believeing everything you hear......Moses DID NOT SEE THE FACE OF HIS god...... If he did then that would crtradict what your god said in the chapter before the one you quoted..... Exodus 33:19:23 19 The LORD replied, "I will make all my goodness pass before you, and I will call out my name, `the LORD,' to you. I will show kindness to anyone I choose, and I will show mercy to anyone I choose. 20 "But you may not look directly at my face, for no one may see me and live." 21 The LORD continued, "Stand here on this rock beside me". 22 As my glorious presence passes by, I will put you in the cleft of the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed. 23 Then I will remove my hand, and you will see me from behind. But my face will not be seen." The next chapter where you quoted actually picks up where God has come down in the "presence" of Moses but as described in the previous chpater. Moses NEVER saw his face. How can we trust in your preception of Yeshua and who he was when you don't even know your own scripture. And speaking of Yeshua, if you truly believed Moses saw the face of God and lived then it would make Yeshua a liar....who must not have known the scripture. And since you believe Yeshua is God, did your god forget that Moses saw his face, (as you claim)? John 1:18 No one has ever seen God,........... Was Yeshua lieing, forgot or did he just misunderstand?[/quote] It doesn't but are you suggesting that Jehovah was standing there with His back to Moses? There is an apparent contradiction right in that passage. There is more going on there than you or I can figure out from the scripture. The bottom line is that Moses did see God even if it were hindsight. There are also these verses: Ex 33:11And Jehovah spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his minister Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the Tent. Ge 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for, said he, I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. As I said before no-one can see the infinitude of God, however what they see of God is God. This is a good time to talk about manifestations and representations. God is a spirit and no-one can see a spirit while they are a living soul and sight after death is not the same thing. What anyone sees of God is His representation or manifestation. Jesus is a representation of God in the sense that you can see the human body and hear it speak and watch it act but the body is not God, the Spirit that is in Jesus (just as God breathes in our spirits into our bodies) is God. That verse you almost quoted states it again: John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. The NASB translates it as explained. In a sense both words are trying to convey the concept that Jesus is drawing us a self portrait of God. You come mighty close to blasphemy. It is not Jesus speaking in that verse but the Apostle John. In any event this is the same chapter in which John states that God became a man, v14, who John states in v18 is the "only begotten son" and v17 "Jesus Christ."
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#258
04-16-2008, 09:32 AM
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Of course the Muslims get all in a snit when Mohammed is listed as a sinner and Jesus is not. For someone who isn't a Muslim why do you react in the same way? After all Mohammed is not God and never claimed to be. I don't see any reason why I can't step on the toes of Christians who get uppity in their pride and think that God only speaks to them personnaly. Why should Christians act like Jews who will not accept the New Testament as the Word of God by saying that the Qu'ran is not the Word of God? It seems to me that any person should be willing to accept the Word of God whatever messenger God uses to procaim it.
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#259
04-16-2008, 11:32 AM
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