Jesus is God? (Messiah, HaShem, crucifixion, Kingdom, Jehovah) - Page 2

Mr. Peanut · #11 03-25-2008, 05:53 AM

I would like also to simply show Isaiah 53, about the Suffering Servant. Jesus always taught that he must suffer according to scripure. he taught that he that would be first must be servant of all and washed his disciples feet. He was the Suffering Servant:

Isaiah 53

1Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

There is only one person in all of history that is described by this, in detail, and that is the Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Dirty Penguin · #12 03-25-2008, 06:42 AM

None of the NT scriptures (Matthew, Mark Luke or John) support the notion Yeshua is God. There was no claim, implicitly or explicitly, made by Yeshua he was God nor did his followers believe he was. This has all been covered in a bunch of threads here.....

Muffled · #13 03-25-2008, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khale

I know that there are a good many christians out their who believe that those who follow the jewish religion need to be saved because they do not worship Jesus. So, quick question:

Jesus is God(YHWH). It seems to me that we are worshipping the same deity. Am I correct? Why or why not?

You are correct but the Jews deny God in Jesus and therefore have rejected God and have refused to accept the salvation offered by Him.

The law has no power to save (it only tells you what to do to be saved) but Jesus does:

Eph. 2:8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not of works, that no man should glory.

kai · #14 03-25-2008, 09:12 AM

not the same ! the Jews reject the Christ god, and the Christians reject the Jews god, if its the same god then he is a schizophrenic or he doesn't have a clue what he is doing down here !

Dirty Penguin · #15 03-25-2008, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muffled

You are correct but the Jews deny God in Jesus and therefore have rejected God and have refused to accept the salvation offered by Him.

They were justified in denying "God in Yeshua"......Even Yeshua denied he was God.

What they really did was deny him as the promised messiah.

CDB · #16 03-25-2008, 02:42 PM

'They were justified in denying "God in Yeshua"......Even Yeshua denied he was God.

What they really did was deny him as the promised messiah.'

Jesus denied he was God, but God went in him, so you are right and wrong.

They denied the Son, therefore they denied the Father :

1 John 2:23 (King James Version)

Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

FFH · #17 03-25-2008, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOSEF THE PROPHET

CHRIST IS A GOD. NOT AS GREAT AS JEHOVAH (THE FATHER), BUT GOD NONETHELESS.

Jehovah is God the Son (Christ)
Elohim is God the Father (Heavenly Father)
Holy Ghost is God the Father and the Son's Spirit, since they are one in purpose (in my opinion)

CDB · #18 03-25-2008, 03:45 PM

'Jehovah is God the Son (Christ)
Elohim is God the Father.'

You either have two Gods, or you have the Son being his own Father.

Please explain this impossibility. Backed up with scripture.

Dirty Penguin · #19 03-25-2008, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDB

'They were justified in denying "God in Yeshua"......Even Yeshua denied he was God.

What they really did was deny him as the promised messiah.'

Jesus denied he was God, but God went in him, so you are right and wrong.

They denied the Son, therefore they denied the Father :

1 John 2:23 (King James Version)

Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Now before you fired back you should have atleast really read what I wrote. I don't disagree with you at all. I responded to a trinitarian claim that Yeshua is God. I believe the statement was "God in Jesus".......

The jews denied he was the messiah, or sent by his god. They denied the authoruty he was given by his god. I believe there is only one reference where they mis-understood him and thought he was claiming to God or equal to God but as we read further Yeshua immediately responded and cleared up their misconceptions. Yeshua, as observed in the bible, reveals he is not God.

John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know you, the only true god and Yeshua the Messiah, whom you have sent.

So basic. So clear. You are God, I am your messiah (ambassador who speaks on your behalf), whom YOU sent......

Dirty Penguin · #20 03-25-2008, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFH

Jehovah is God the Son (Christ)
Elohim is God the Father (Heavenly Father)
Holy Ghost is God the Father and the Son's Spirit, since they are one in purpose (in my opinion)

Can you show where the bible confirms this?

From what I have read what you call Jehovah is a variant of YHWH (Yaweh)

Since Jews were not allowd to speak the sacred name of God they used other descriptions such as El, Eloah, Elohim

The Holy Spirit, from what I have read, does not come off as a man but rather God's (power or active force). We know the holy spirit is separate from Yeshua because the scripture gives accounts of the holy spirit in other people at the ime Mary was pregnant. Yeshua was alive for quite sometime before the holy spirit decended upon him. Even after that God's voice is heard from the heavens. I have found nothing in the bible to suggest that the holy spirit was the spirit of Yeshua.