Jesus is God? (Messiah, HaShem, crucifixion, Kingdom, Jehovah)

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by deelo505

so do you think IF you were to go to heaven your spirit would not be you?

I'm not sure to whom you were addressing this question, deelo, since your quote contained both my statements and someone else's. But my answer to your question is that I believe that when I go to Heaven it will be after I am resurrected, in other words, when my spirit re-enters my physical body which will have been made perfect and immortal.

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by deelo505

"
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
who is the word of God?

Rather WHAT is the word of God.

Regards,
Scott

[CDB]

Originally Posted by Charity

In reading the posts here even a genius would be confused at the different views. I just want to try to simplify this for it appears that even some religious people are confused. I John 5:5-8 For there are three that bear record in Heaven, the Father,(God), Jesus, (the word) and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one. (united) In John 14:6 no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. This is Jesus saying that He is the mediator between The Father (God) and us.

If you make Jesus the Son of God the Word, then you make him a second God.

John 1 says the Word is God. If the Father is God, and the Word is God, then the Father and the Word are the same. The Son cannot be the Word unless he is also God.

BIG problem, since all christianity supposedly believes in only one God.

With regards to being mediator:

1 Timothy 2:5

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus;

That's pretty plain to me. He doesn't need to be God to be mediator.

[CDB]

Originally Posted by deelo505

"
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
who is the word of God?

God. The answer is at the end of the passage.

The Son of God is the Word made manifest, the express image of God, but not God himself.

Remember that Jesus is the only begotten (born) Son of God.
God gave birth to his Son.
And since there is no Mrs. God, then the Son is going to come out looking EXACTLY like his Father, since no other material than God material was there in the first place.

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by CDB

Remember that Jesus is the only begotten (born) Son of God.
God gave birth to his Son.
And since there is no Mrs. God, then the Son is going to come out looking EXACTLY like his Father, since no other material than God material was there in the first place.

Then who is Mary? Not Mrs. God certainly, but Jesus was born of a woman, gestated within a woman who was brought to bear a child by the will of God rather than by the usual method of introducing sperm into her vagina.

Regards,
Scott

[Dirty Penguin]

Originally Posted by deelo505

"
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
who is the word of God?

I was simply replying to Lockyfan on Proverbs 8:22-31

I'm not sure what response you're looking for from me. Before I can answer your question you must answer this one first. Do you believe Proverbs 8:22-31 is speaking of Yeshua....because this is what your responding to.........?

Be careful before you answer because it is normally the position of christians that Yeshua was not a "created" being. If Proverbs 8:22-31 is about Yeshua then the first sentence refutes their claims. Looking at the quotes at first glance can give one the impression it is speaking of Yeshua because of a couple of quotes from Yeshua......

He said he existed before the world was......and it is the scripture that says Yeshua sits at the right hand of God (power). These would seems to fit the statements in proverbs.........

"BUT".........If you agree then you must concede Yeshua is not God.....because in Proverbs it says......"God created me before he created anything else"......."I was put in place before the earth was created".......and we see that the speaker in Proverbs gives all credit to the creator whom created him as well as being the creator of heaven and earth which also sounds like Yeshua's declaration in his prayers to his god;

John 17:3
You are the one true god and I am the messiah whom you have sent.

Matthew 11:25
......I thank YOU, O Father, master of heaven and earth..........


This is why I said some would not agree that this is speaking of Yeshua even though the statements fit.

Now to see if the writer of the book of John's interpretation fits Yeshua as being "God" you simply need to look no further than within the same book and Yeshua prayer in 17:3 says.....NO....he is not God.....

[Muffled]

Originally Posted by Booko

I'm aware of the verse in the Tenach describing King Messiah, which includes some of the titles you list.

How do you square the title of "Prince of Peace" being applied to Jesus when Jesus said He came not to bring peace but a sword?

There are two different types of peace 1. As the world gives, temporal 2. As Jesus gives, eternal.

Having the second peace I am more at odds with this world or less at peace with it as in the first definition.

[Dirty Penguin]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Mason

Because the Father had the authority first. Not two gods, two parts of the collective that make one in purpose.

Then this is where we differ. It is one of the trinitarian beliefs that God gave up his power to become human but yet when asked how can God temporarily give up his power and run the universe if he is omnipotent.....we are told.....that he was still running the universe while in the form of a man. To me this doesn't make sense and comes off as a contradiction. If God gave up his power to become part of his creation then how can he be fully (100%) God and fully (100%) man? Why would this creator have to be "given" power and authority if it all was his from the beginning? And who was it that "gave" him this power and authority?

For me, the logical conclusion would have to be that they are not the same. In order to be given there must be a giver. In order to be sent there must be a sender. I have said this plenty of times in every thread like this and that logic has gone unchallenged.

[Muffled]

Originally Posted by Booko

My bottom line is if Jesus told His followers to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit...then it would be best if they were obedient and did so.

And I don't actually have a problem with the notion that Jesus spoke with all authority, and most certainly for that time He was given to speak. Jesus was the closest thing to God anyone could manage for those who saw Him, and for the many who came after.

Here's the analogy I use -- if you look at the reflection of the sun in a mirror, you can say "That's the sun" and you'd be correct. You could also say "That's not the sun" because it's the image and not the actual sun. Both statements are true.

Likewise, if Jesus speaks as if He's God, that's correct. And if in another place He speaks as if He is not God, that is also correct.

Paradoxes are such fun.

When you understand what is meant in the Qu'ran that God has no partners, then you can see that God gives His authority to no-one but Himself. If there were another that person would be a partner. Even as the Paraclete, God does not give you His authority, you step aside and let God be the authority in you.

God knows my ego and how I would love to have His power but He knows better than to put power into the hands of sinful men. All we have to do is look at the men who loved power like Hitler and we should know it isn't a good thing. As our technology expands we have put more power in the hands of men, enough to destroy ourselves and our world. It is getting to be time for God to step in and remove that power from us.