Jesus is God? (Messiah, HaShem, crucifixion, Kingdom, Jehovah)

[Booko]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Mason

Well, now we get into the whole idea of the trinity. "Baptize them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit," Jesus is a subordinate of the Father but shares authority. This subject has its own thread but to some it up; there are people like myself who believe that the term "God" implies a collective like a team. Others don't. As long as Jesus has all authority, he's God to me.

My bottom line is if Jesus told His followers to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit...then it would be best if they were obedient and did so.

And I don't actually have a problem with the notion that Jesus spoke with all authority, and most certainly for that time He was given to speak. Jesus was the closest thing to God anyone could manage for those who saw Him, and for the many who came after.

Here's the analogy I use -- if you look at the reflection of the sun in a mirror, you can say "That's the sun" and you'd be correct. You could also say "That's not the sun" because it's the image and not the actual sun. Both statements are true.

Likewise, if Jesus speaks as if He's God, that's correct. And if in another place He speaks as if He is not God, that is also correct.

Paradoxes are such fun.

[Michel07]

Originally Posted by Booko

Uh, dude, that's a myth about St. Patrick. That and the thing about the snakes.

However, since I'm not uncomfortable with paradoxes like Jesus saying in one place things that imply that He is not God while in other places things that imply He is God, it doesn't exactly keep me up nights.

The nature of the few figures in human history like Jesus are very paradoxical, which is why we struggle with things like this and, all of us being well meaning and striving to do our best, we still come up with divergent answers.

Hey dude that's cool . You know man, some get it and some don't , dude.

I hope everyone knows how to spell facetious.

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by Michel07

Please explain the "BE"

As well please explain the next sentence in John 1- 14
which is
" and made his dwelling among us "

not " WE"

Every speck of hydrogen, every recognizable bit of matter, every particle or wave of energy, every star, planet, living thing in all of Creation dwell among us.

"BE!" was the command that created every creature from subatomic particle to the largest star in all the universe.

Regards,
Scott

[Michel07]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

Every speck of hydrogen, every recognizable bit of matter, every particle or wave of energy, every star, planet, living thing in all of Creation dwell among us.

"BE!" was the command that created every creature from subatomic particle to the largest star in all the universe.

Regards,
Scott

and if that is so where did that come from.

[Jeremy Mason]

Originally Posted by Booko

My bottom line is if Jesus told His followers to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit...then it would be best if they were obedient and did so.

And I don't actually have a problem with the notion that Jesus spoke with all authority, and most certainly for that time He was given to speak. Jesus was the closest thing to God anyone could manage for those who saw Him, and for the many who came after.

Here's the analogy I use -- if you look at the reflection of the sun in a mirror, you can say "That's the sun" and you'd be correct. You could also say "That's not the sun" because it's the image and not the actual sun. Both statements are true.

Likewise, if Jesus speaks as if He's God, that's correct. And if in another place He speaks as if He is not God, that is also correct.

Paradoxes are such fun.

I follow you. What if I were to point at the sun and say, "That's not the sun?"

Obviously, that would be wrong. But to most Christians, saying Jesus is not God is just as ludicrous and can be construed as blasphemy considering what he did for us on the cross. I don't mean to step on other peoples toes, its just my deep beliefs,

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by Michel07

and if that is so where did that come from.

"That" is a pronoun without a reference. What does "that" refer to?

Regards,
Scott

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Mason

I follow you. What if I were to point at the sun and say, "That's not the sun?"

Obviously, that would be wrong. But to most Christians, saying Jesus is not God is just as ludicrous and can be construed as blasphemy considering what he did for us on the cross. I don't mean to step on other peoples toes, its just my deep beliefs,

Blasphemy is a term without a lot of modern meaning. It was only "blasphemy" by the fiat of clergy and church elders. Where did Jesus ever refer to Himself as God, in His own words? I am not interested in editorial comments by the authors of the Gospels, mind you--only direct quotes of the words of Jesus IN the Gospels. Not the epistles or the Apocalypse, or even the Acts of the Apostles, but in the Gospels. If you have a red letter edition that is useful--anywhere in Jesus' own words in Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.

Regards,
Scott

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by Booko

My bottom line is if Jesus told His followers to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit...then it would be best if they were obedient and did so.

And I don't actually have a problem with the notion that Jesus spoke with all authority, and most certainly for that time He was given to speak. Jesus was the closest thing to God anyone could manage for those who saw Him, and for the many who came after.

Here's the analogy I use -- if you look at the reflection of the sun in a mirror, you can say "That's the sun" and you'd be correct. You could also say "That's not the sun" because it's the image and not the actual sun. Both statements are true.

Likewise, if Jesus speaks as if He's God, that's correct. And if in another place He speaks as if He is not God, that is also correct.

Paradoxes are such fun.

Paradox is a lesson for the learning. One should creatively face one every day.

Regards,
Scott