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  #91  
Old 03-30-2008, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by deelo505 View Post
to think it impossible that God couldnt become human or be in human form is denying his greatness and power.no one knows anything for sure of course.but thats my thoughts, i believe they are one.
Can God Lie..?

If you say yes....does youre bible confirm it?

just curious....I've often wondered......

As I have observed in the four gospels Yeshua reveals that they are one in (purpose) but never one in the same.....
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  #92  
Old 03-30-2008, 09:03 PM
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How else would Jesus be a son if not made by God? you still have to be made by your parents to become their child! Is this not correct?

Also Jesus is a decendant from Adam for the simple fact of this! His mother was the wife of a decendant of David the kind from who Jesus was to take over from and have control of God's Kingdom, no other would ever have that!

Micah 5:2
And you, O Beth´le·hem Eph´ra·thah, the one too little to get to be among the thousands of Judah, from you there will come out to me the one who is to become ruler in Israel, whose origin is from early times, from the days of time indefinite
Early time? time indefinate? is this not what is called those from before the earth is made? from before Adam and Eve were created?

John 3:13
Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man.
Jesus is also called the son of Man

John 6:37-38
Everything the Father gives me will come to me, and the one that comes to me I will by no means drive away; because I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me
Jesus has come from heaven! and has been SENT from heaven by a higher source!

John 6:62
What, therefore, if YOU should behold the Son of man ascending to where he was before?
Jesus is ascending to where he had been before!

John 17:1Jesus spoke these things, and, raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come; glorify your son, that your son may glorify you,
Hold a tick, whoa what was that? He looked to the heaven and said glorify your SON? wait, if he was God, wouldn't Jesus be saying this to himself? hey me glorify me! no he didn't he looked upward towards heaven and said Glorify your son that your son glorify you

The last one for this time is
1 Corinthians 11:3
But I want YOU to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God.

Jehovah God is the head of Christ, is ABOVE Christ, he is not the SAME as Christ, he is HIGHER, yet Christ is the HEAD of humans, but God is the HIGHEST
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  #93  
Old 03-30-2008, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
When the Apostle Thomas first recognized Jesus after the Resurrection, he said, "My Lord and my God!" There are a couple of ways of interpreting this statement....
Another way of interpreting it is he was simply shouting in surprise, "Holy ****!!! Good Lord!!!" I know I would if I saw one of my best friends I thought dead, standing there in front of me!
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  #94  
Old 03-30-2008, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Troublemane View Post
Another way of interpreting it is he was simply shouting in surprise, "Holy ****!!! Good Lord!!!" I know I would if I saw one of my best friends I thought dead, standing there in front of me!
That's basically what I meant when I said he could have been addressing God the Father. But that's not what it appears to be in the context in which it was said.

John 20:27-29 Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

It appears that Thomas is actually addressing Christ as his Lord and God and that Jesus responds to that address. To me, that says that He acknowledged it as a accurate statement of who He was.
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  #95  
Old 03-30-2008, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
That's basically what I meant when I said he could have been addressing God the Father. But that's not what it appears to be in the context in which it was said.

John 20:27-29 Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

It appears that Thomas is actually addressing Christ as his Lord and God and that Jesus responds to that address. To me, that says that He acknowledged it as a accurate statement of who He was.

if i may reinforce katspur's post. when jesus said

" Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

he is acknowledging Thomas' statement of FAITH. statement of faith that Jesus was God.
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  #96  
Old 03-30-2008, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Troublemane View Post
Another way of interpreting it is he was simply shouting in surprise, "Holy ****!!! Good Lord!!!" I know I would if I saw one of my best friends I thought dead, standing there in front of me!

nope. if you read the verses before that particular verse, Thomas was looking for proof(the not until i saw the holes in his hands thing). and when he so christ he was expecting to see his hands and touch it, why would he be surprised?

and look at jesus statement ' blessed are you that you had faith when you saw me...

acknowldgement that Jesus was/is/will be God!
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  #97  
Old 03-30-2008, 11:59 PM
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Sure, Thomas's statement was one of surprise......Other than the KJV there are plenty of bibles where the scholars translated the verse with an exclaimation mark at the end. But since this type of marking did not exist in the greek...how do we know how the verse is supposed to be rendered. We can not tell reading the verse the real expression Thomas displayed. But as I've said before....to know if Yeshua was God just observe his prayer to his god in John chapter 17.....where he says....

YOU are the one true god and I am the messiah whom YOU have sent.

Yeshua, in his prayer to his god, acknowledges that he himself is not God and it was his god that sent him. In order to be sent there must be a sender.
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Last edited by Dirty Penguin; 03-31-2008 at 09:29 AM.
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  #98  
Old 03-31-2008, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by uss_bigd View Post
nope. if you read the verses before that particular verse, Thomas was looking for proof(the not until i saw the holes in his hands thing). and when he so christ he was expecting to see his hands and touch it, why would he be surprised?

and look at jesus statement ' blessed are you that you had faith when you saw me...

acknowldgement that Jesus was/is/will be God!
Nope.

The reason for telling the story is in the last two verses of the chapter (in red for clarity)

From the Darby translation:
"

26And eight days after, his disciples were again within, and Thomas with them. Jesus comes, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst and said, Peace [be] to you.
27Then he says to Thomas, Bring thy finger here and see my hands; and bring thy hand and put it into my side; and be not unbelieving, but believing.
28Thomas answered and said to him, My Lord and my God.
29Jesus says to him, Because thou hast seen me thou hast believed: blessed they who have not seen and have believed.
30Many other signs therefore also Jesus did before his disciples, which are not written in this book; 31but these are written that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing ye might have life in his name.

Even the author of the Gospel says Jesus is not God.

Regards,
Scott
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  #99  
Old 03-31-2008, 12:06 AM
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Jesus said that he existed before Abraham. what was he if he could do that?
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