Four new perspectives on "God is Spirit" (Jesus Christ, ritual)

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by NetDoc

Jesus told us that GOD IS SPIRIT. If we are created in his image, then it is a SPIRITUAL IMAGE.

John 4:24 states, "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." This one statement, more than any other, is used by Christians of various denominations to prove that God is an immaterial being whose invisible essence fills the universe. Since there has been an ongoing debate taking place on the "Genesis 1" thread on this topic, I thought I'd like to explore this single verse in greater depth. Here are my thoughts. I'd be interested in yours:

(1) If God is a spirit, and if we are created in His image, are you saying that we are spirits, too? It’s true that each of us has a spirit. You could even say that we are spirits. But we are not only spirits. We are spirits inhabiting physical bodies. You believe that God is a spirit without a physical body, but that’s not what the scripture states. It states only that He is a spirit, and according to your own reasoning, having a spirit and being a corporeal being are not mutually exclusive.



(2) Is God “a” spirit or is He spirit? Since the Greek has no indefinite article, either statement is as accurate as the other. God is described elsewhere in the scriptures as “light,” but this time the translators chose to omit the indefinite article. Had they translated the Greek to read, “God is a light,” would you argue that this is a definition of who He is, and that this definition precludes His being something else at the same time? I believe that, as the Bible says, God is “love,” “light,” and “spirit.” I also believe, as the Bible says, that He has an image in which we, His own offspring, are created and a form in which His Son, Jesus Christ, walked the earth.



(3) You accept the doctrine of the Trinity, while I accept the doctrine of the Godhead. Either way, both of us believe that the third person of the Trinity/Godhead is the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost. Now according to my belief, the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit only. This is what makes Him unique. Anything that God does that requires Him to function as a spirit (i.e. to “be everywhere at once,” or to “dwell in our hearts”) is done by the Holy Ghost (who is, Himself, also “God”). It is entirely possible that “God is spirit” is speaking of the Holy Ghost since it is through the Holy Ghost that we are able to worship and commune with God. We are told we must worship Him “in spirit” because it is through the Holy Ghost that He communicates with us and we with Him. If God the Father and the Holy Ghost were both spirit beings only, what would the Holy Ghost’s role be? What purpose would He serve within the Trinity/Godhead?



(4)The Greek word, “pneuma,” which is translated here as “spirit” can and is (elsewhere in the Bible) translated as “life.” Thus, “God is life,” is an accurate translation of the phrase. In many respects, this translation makes even more sense than the translation, “God is spirit,” because our Savior ascended into Heaven with a physical body, and presumably still has it. (If God is spirit and Jesus Christ has a body of flesh and bone, does this make Him something other than “God”?) Each of us has a spirit which, when death occurs, leaves the physical body behind. Without the spirit, the physical body is nothing but inanimate flesh and bones; it no longer has life. Because Christians believe that, through the atonement of Jesus Christ, they may attain eternal life in God’s presence, the word “life” is truly an accurate description of the most significant of His many attributes.


It appears to me that the belief in God's incorporeality is based almost exclusively on this single verse. In all honesty, I am continually amazed that, given the huge number of verses which describe God as having a human form, this single verse is the one that most Christians insist on taking literally and refuse to consider from any other perspective than the very one-dimensional one they were raised to believe.

[Katzpur]

My gosh! Is my perspective on this subject so airtight that no one is even going to attack it? Should I be flattered?

[DeepShadow]

Well, I'd attack if it would make you feel any better....

Eh, give folks some time. I know what it's like to have posts get ignored, and while it's irritating, I've always taken it as a good sign.

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

My gosh! Is my perspective on this subject so airtight that no one is even going to attack it? Should I be flattered?

hehe not exactly Katzpur...but then John's not something we read frequently in shul

[may]

we are made in Gods image because we are capable of putting into practice the attributes of God which are love ,justice ,wisdom and power not because we look like him.but did we do this ?

God made mankind upright, but they themselves have sought out many plans. They have acted ruinously on their own part; they are not his children, the defect is their own.—Eccl. 7:29; Deut. 32:5.

People may see a boy and say, "He’s just like his father!" However, the boy may not look like his father. But he is like his father in other ways, such as disposition, personality, mechanical ability, musical talent, physical agility or moral qualities. Having attributes similar to his father’s, the boy is said to be like his father.

It is in this same sense that the first human pair were created in God’s likeness. They were given certain attributes possessed by God

[EnhancedSpirit]

Well, I'm not goint to argue, because I agree. God is spirit. We each inherited this spirit from our father, Abba. I believe we are spiritual beings having a human experience. I also think they used the word 'spirit' because the word 'energy' did not exist, nor did the understanding of energy. God is love. Agape, and this is the single most powerful energy in the universe. Love makes the world go round.

The holy spirit could be viewed as the sum of all the parts of spirit that God has passed on to each of us. It is the energy by which he communes with us. His spirit is connected to our spirit. We are only separated by our physical forms. It takes alot to be able to look past the reality of the material world and see the works of the spirit.

[michel]

As Enhanced spirit has already said, the lack of response is only because there is little to debate on. I agree with everything you say - your one question about the role of the Holy Ghost, E.H has answered - but I would like Scott's input on this - because i am still trying to 'work out' the trinity. Before you askeed this question, I thought I had......

[ThisShouldMakeSense]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

... our Savior ascended into Heaven with a physical body, and presumably still has it.

1 Corinthians 15:50 (King James Version)
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by may

we are made in Gods image because we are capable of putting into practice the attributes of God which are love ,justice ,wisdom and power not because we look like him.but did we do this ?

God made mankind upright, but they themselves have sought out many plans. They have acted ruinously on their own part; they are not his children, the defect is their own.—Eccl. 7:29; Deut. 32:5.

People may see a boy and say, "He’s just like his father!" However, the boy may not look like his father. But he is like his father in other ways, such as disposition, personality, mechanical ability, musical talent, physical agility or moral qualities. Having attributes similar to his father’s, the boy is said to be like his father.

It is in this same sense that the first human pair were created in God’s likeness. They were given certain attributes possessed by God

Thanks for your input, May. I appreciate hearing your point of view, but you didn't actually address any of my points. You told me that you believe God was speaking figuratively when He said, "Let us create man in our image, after our likeness," but you didn't provide any evidence to support your argument. I want to know why, in light of my four statements, you believe as you do.

I would agree with you that if someone sees a boy and says, "He's just like his father!" that person could, as you suggest, mean any one of a number of things (he has his father's disposition, personality, etc.). But if someone says, "She's the spittin' image of her mom!" he means "She looks like her mom." When we use the word image, we are speaking of appearance. I challenge you to give me a single example of how you might use the word "image" in normal every-day language to mean anything other than the representation of physical qualities.

Kathryn