Scripture (Jesus, gospel, contradiction, beliefs, doctrine)

[reyjamiei]

Originally Posted by Deut. 32.8

We all occassionally fall victim to false expectations. I, for example, expect claims to be cogent and syllogisms coherent.

Let us make two assumptions solely for the sake of argument: a) that Paul authored the Pastorals, and b) that he was inspired by God when doing so. There is absolutely nothing in such assumptions that constrains Paul to use language in personal communication that is timeless and universal. The text addresses the continuation of study. The reader would have known what was intended by 'scripture'. It is simply inane to suggest that 'Paul' write something like: "Continue your studies. All Scripture is inspired by God except for the stuff that some other people, about whom you haven't a clue, might someday and somewhere label scripture, which, of course, is not God-inspired, but don't worry too much about it because you'll never read it anyway."

Your presumed definition of inspiration is dumb as rocks and your conclusions follow suit.

You held up good until the end.

[Original Freak]

Originally Posted by reyjamiei

In my opinion the Bible has always been questionable but there are people who consider it to be the infallible word of God and they use it to say that what they believe is right and everyone else is wrong. The apostle Paul apparently writing under inspiration of God, wrote that all scripture is given by inspiration of God. He didn't say "our scriptures" or "the scriptures that we know" but "all scripture." Why would God tell different people to worship in different ways and give different rules for living your life? Because it fits his need. He told people to worship him in different ways in the Bible and gave different rules for living.

Make a choice. Either the bible is the perfect word of god, in which it takes precidence over all other texts and makes your point invalid or the bible is metaphorical and full of errors in which case it doesn't matter whether or not Paul wrote 'all' or 'some' or 'this one' because it quite possibly and error and he wouldn't consider text he didn't know about, thereby making you point invalid.

You can't say you know for sure a specific passage is the divine, inspired word of good if you admit the bible isn't the perfect divine word of god.

[reyjamiei]

Originally Posted by Original Freak

Make a choice. Either the bible is the perfect word of god, in which it takes precidence over all other texts and makes your point invalid or the bible is metaphorical and full of errors in which case it doesn't matter whether or not Paul wrote 'all' or 'some' or 'this one' because it quite possibly and error and he wouldn't consider text he didn't know about, thereby making you point invalid.

You can't say you know for sure a specific passage is the divine, inspired word of good if you admit the bible isn't the perfect divine word of god.

I never said that I believe the Bible to be the divine word of God and I never said that I knew for sure that's what that passage meant. But it says that all scripture is given by inspiration of God. Some people claim that their scriptures are the only word of God. To me it doesn't matter. To me, the Bible is just as good as the Book of Mormon, the Qu'ran or the The Book of Enoch. But I don't claim to believe in any of them as the word of God. This post was for the benefit of those who do. To me it doesn't matter. I believe in life and I believe in death. I do my best to have an enjoyable experience between life and death but what happens between death and life, I have no control over.

[michel]

Originally Posted by reyjamiei

I never said that I believe the Bible to be the divine word of God and I never said that I knew for sure that's what that passage meant. But it says that all scripture is given by inspiration of God. Some people claim that their scriptures are the only word of God. To me it doesn't matter. To me, the Bible is just as good as the Book of Mormon, the Qu'ran or the The Book of Enoch. But I don't claim to believe in any of them as the word of God. This post was for the benefit of those who do. To me it doesn't matter. I believe in life and I believe in death. I do my best to have an enjoyable experience between life and death but what happens between death and life, I have no control over.

Well said; you echo my feelings on this subject.

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by reyjamiei

This post was for the benefit of those who do. To me it doesn't matter. I believe in life and I believe in death.

So you just felt like preaching for a bit?.... thanks for the "help".

[reyjamiei]

Originally Posted by SOGFPP

So you just felt like preaching for a bit?.... thanks for the "help".

I'm not a preacher and never claimed to be but people do it all the time with little or no more understanding of the scriptures than anyone else. I just made a post that you can agree with or disagree with. There's alot of preaching going on on this site but that's not my intention all I want to do is post something for discussion.

[Original Freak]

Originally Posted by reyjamiei

I never said that I believe the Bible to be the divine word of God and I never said that I knew for sure that's what that passage meant. But it says that all scripture is given by inspiration of God. Some people claim that their scriptures are the only word of God. To me it doesn't matter. To me, the Bible is just as good as the Book of Mormon, the Qu'ran or the The Book of Enoch. But I don't claim to believe in any of them as the word of God. This post was for the benefit of those who do. To me it doesn't matter. I believe in life and I believe in death. I do my best to have an enjoyable experience between life and death but what happens between death and life, I have no control over.

Sorry, that's not the impression I got. So for those that do think the bible is the word of god then I still hold by the fact they can't believe all the religious scriptures come from one god for my already stated reasons.

As for the life and death thing...that's about where I am.

[Melody]

Originally Posted by reyjamiei

Christians say that the Bible is scripture inspired of God
Mormons say that The Book of Mormon is scripture inspired of God
Muslims say that The Holy Qur'an is scripture inspired of God

2 Timothy 3:16 says "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is
profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in
righteousness:"

Reyjamiei,
You're giving a bible verse from Christian Scripture to back up the statement that all scripture is inspired of God. I don't believe the Qu'ran or Book of Mormon are scripture inspired of God.

If the Book of Mormon and/or Qu'ran contain such a statement, then I would imagine it applies only to their books. I don't think they consider the bible as the inspiration of God because if they did, they wouldn't believe it contained errors. I could be wrong and I'm sure they'll correct me if I am.

Now, assuming that we all believe our scripture is inspired of God, then (since the three books contradict each other), one of us (or all 3 ) must be deluded, hmmmm?

[EnhancedSpirit]

Originally Posted by Melody

Reyjamiei,
You're giving a bible verse from Christian Scripture to back up the statement that all scripture is inspired of God. I don't believe the Qu'ran or Book of Mormon are scripture inspired of God.

If the Book of Mormon and/or Qu'ran contain such a statement, then I would imagine it applies only to their books. I don't think they consider the bible as the inspiration of God because if they did, they wouldn't believe it contained errors. I could be wrong and I'm sure they'll correct me if I am.

Now, assuming that we all believe our scripture is inspired of God, then (since the three books contradict each other), one of us (or all 3 ) must be deluded, hmmmm?

The New Testament has been known to contradict the Old Testament. Christians believe the Torah is flawed and corrected the problem. Why do you believe that Christianity is the end all for everyone? Jesus said there would be some who would not hear his message because he was not their shepard, but he did not say that there were not other sheperds tending to flocks.

2 Timothy 3:1 Don't be naive. There are difficult times ahead. 2 As the end approaches, people are going to be self-absorbed, money-hungry, self-promoting, stuck-up, profane, contemptuous of parents, crude, coarse, 3 dog-eat-dog, unbending, slanderers, impulsively wild, savage, cynical, 4 treacherous, ruthless, bloated windbags, addicted to lust, and allergic to God. 5 They'll make a show of religion, but behind the scenes they're animals. Stay clear of these people. 6 These are the kind of people who smooth-talk themselves into the homes of unstable and needy women and take advantage of them; women who, depressed by their sinfulness, take up with every new religious fad that calls itself "truth." 7 They get exploited every time and never really learn. 8 These men are like those old Egyptian frauds Jannes and Jambres, who challenged Moses. They were rejects from the faith, twisted in their thinking, defying truth itself. 9 But nothing will come of these latest impostors. Everyone will see through them, just as people saw through that Egyptian hoax.

10 You've been a good apprentice to me, a part of my teaching, my manner of life, direction, faith, steadiness, love, patience, 11 troubles, sufferings - suffering along with me in all the grief I had to put up with in Antioch, Iconium, and Lystra. And you also well know that God rescued me! 12 Anyone who wants to live all out for Christ is in for a lot of trouble; there's no getting around it. 13 Unscrupulous con men will continue to exploit the faith. They're as deceived as the people they lead astray. As long as they are out there, things can only get worse. 14 But don't let it faze you. Stick with what you learned and believed, sure of the integrity of your teachers - 15 why, you took in the sacred Scriptures with your mother's milk! There's nothing like the written Word of God for showing you the way to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 Every part of Scripture is God-breathed and useful one way or another - showing us truth, exposing our rebellion, correcting our mistakes, training us to live God's way. 17 Through the Word we are put together and shaped up for the tasks God has for us.

Both Mormons and Muslims honor Christ, just because they do so in a different manner than you, does not make them wrong. You seem to be carrying the sword of judgement. And what does Christ say about that?

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by reyjamiei

... all I want to do is post something for discussion.

Very well. Discuss with us what Timothy would infer from the term 'scripture', particularly after the exhortation against false teachings.