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  #11  
Old 01-19-2013, 10:31 PM
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Net.bible translates Hab 2:4 as
2:4 Look, the one whose desires are not upright will faint from exhaustion, 12
but the person of integrity 13 will live 14 because of his faithfulness. 15

https://net.bible.org/#!bible/Habakkuk+2
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  #12  
Old 01-19-2013, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Hoffman View Post
Net.bible translates Hab 2:4 as
2:4 Look, the one whose desires are not upright will faint from exhaustion, 12
but the person of integrity 13 will live 14 because of his faithfulness. 15

https://net.bible.org/#!bible/Habakkuk+2
Where does "faint from exhaustion" come from I wonder?

hin·nêh behold
‘up·pə·lāh, proud
lō- not
yā·šə·rāh right
nap̄·šōw soul
bōw; ?
wə·ṣad·dîq righteous
be·’ĕ·mū·nā·ṯōw faithfulness
yiḥ·yeh. will live
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  #13  
Old 01-19-2013, 11:02 PM
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https://net.bible.org/#!bible/Habakkuk+2

12 tn The meaning of this line is unclear, primarily because of the uncertainty surrounding the second word, עֲפְּלָה (’apÿlah). Some read this as an otherwise unattested verb עָפַל (’afal, “swell”) from which are derived nouns meaning “mound” and “hemorrhoid.” This “swelling” is then understood in an abstract sense, “swell with pride.” This would yield a translation, “As for the proud, his desires are not right within him” (cf. NASB “as for the proud one”; NIV “he is puffed up”; NRSV “Look at the proud!”). A multitude of other interpretations of this line, many of which involve emendations of the problematic form, may be found in the commentaries and periodical literature. The present translation assumes an emendation to a Pual form of the verb עָלַף (’alaf, “be faint, exhausted”). (See its use in the Pual in Isa 51:20, and in the Hitpael in Amos 8:13 and Jonah 4:8.) In the antithetical parallelism of the verse, it corresponds to חָיָה (khayah, “live”). The phrase לֹא יָשְׁרָה נַפְשׁוֹ בּוֹ (loyoshrah nafsho bo), literally, “not upright his desire within him,” is taken as a substantival clause that contrasts with צַדִּיק (tsadiq, “the righteous one”) and serves as the subject of the preceding verb. Here נֶפֶשׁ (nefesh) is understood in the sense of “desire” (see BDB 660-61 s.v. נֶפֶשׁ for a list of passages where the word carries this sense).
13 tn Or “righteous.” The oppressed individuals mentioned in 1:4 are probably in view here.
14 tn Or “will be preserved.” In the immediate context this probably refers to physical preservation through both the present oppression and the coming judgment (see Hab 3:16-19).
15 tn Or “loyalty”; or “integrity.” The Hebrew word אֱמוּנָה (’emunah) has traditionally been translated “faith,” but the term nowhere else refers to “belief” as such. When used of human character and conduct it carries the notion of “honesty, integrity, reliability, faithfulness.” The antecedent of the suffix has been understood in different ways. It could refer to God’s faithfulness, but in this case one would expect a first person suffix (the original form of the LXX has “my faithfulness” here). Others understand the “vision” to be the antecedent. In this case the reliability of the prophecy is in view. For a statement of this view, see J. J. M. Roberts, Nahum, Habakkuk, and Zephaniah (OTL), 111-12. The present translation assumes that the preceding word “[the person of] integrity” is the antecedent. In this case the Lord is assuring Habakkuk that those who are truly innocent will be preserved through the coming oppression and judgment by their godly lifestyle, for God ultimately rewards this type of conduct. In contrast to these innocent people, those with impure desires (epitomized by the greedy Babylonians; see v. 5) will not be able to withstand God’s judgment (v. 4a).

https://net.bible.org/#!bible/Habakkuk+2
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  #14  
Old 01-20-2013, 06:11 AM
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Leaven swells bread. Leaven is something the Pharisees have to be avoided.
"Be careful," Jesus said to them. "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees."

I think it means pride to know something true (the true vision) will cause a person to cease seeing it to the end.
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  #15  
Old 01-20-2013, 06:13 AM
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I think exhausted is not a bad word to describe what happens to leaven in the bread if it is not cooked in time.
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  #16  
Old 01-20-2013, 06:27 AM
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A bad translation can be misleading. It is assumed the first part of Habakkuk 2:4 is about a proud man who it is implied will not live as his lifestyle is seen as an alternative lifestyle to the man of the second part who will "keep living". So no faithful reader wants to be like the man in part one. But the man in part one is on his way seeking to know the vision. But he has become confident (too proud) of his achievement so far. (Matthew 5:20) For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven It is a warning about owning confidence because confidence will not lead to life.
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  #17  
Old 01-20-2013, 06:31 AM
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Speaking of bad translations I found another one that misleads. It was on face book this morning. And I have to wonder.....


Stay away from a foolish man, for you will not find knowledge on his lips. Proverbs 14:7

Stay away from a foolish man HE will not find knowledge on YOUR lips.

Can I go now?
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  #18  
Old 01-28-2013, 03:43 PM
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But this is a thread about Hab 2:4 and you seems to have strayed away.
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  #19  
Old 01-29-2013, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Hoffman View Post
Behold, his soul [which] is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

Other similar translations are
Habakkuk 2 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)

Is this translation accurate? Does it prove Paul was right about faith being the source of righteousness?
So when the overwhelming majority of the translations show that the just live by faith, you, in your infinite wisdom and deep understanding of ancient Hebrew, choose a translation that undermines 2,000 years of theology. Does this sum up your position.
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  #20  
Old 01-29-2013, 10:14 PM
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Well, I think most of these mistranslations are the ones that support Xian theology, and this is important to notice.
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