Logical 10 Commandments (Jesus, Moses, Torah, paradise, exodus)

[EnhancedSpirit]

Every church I have ever visited was run as a business. This is why I stay away. It's all about money and power. This is a mock correspondence that might have occurred sometime in history, between some group leaders.

Date: Some / Day / About 5,000 Years Ago
RE: Close-quarters Community Living Transition
Dear Brother of the Ruling Class,
Now that we are no longer nomadic hunters and gathers, and we are going to live in one spot in relatively close proximity to one another, let us agree on some guidelines for living so close together and in such a big group.

6 - Let's not kill each other. However, in time of war against us, let's kill the enemy.
7 - Let's not mess around with each other's wife or husband (mate). Doing so would cause a lot of trouble and disharmony in a small community such as ours.
8 - Let's not steal anything from each other. This would also cause a lot of trouble and hard feelings in a small community such as ours.
9 - Let's discourage lying about each other. Someone might tell lies about you or me; especially since you and I have so much wealth and the rest of our people have so very little.
10 - And, speaking on this topic of disproportionate wealth, let's discourage our people from coveting what you and I have.
5 - We are going to need each set of parents to pass down these guidelines so let's make sure the children respect what their parents tell them to do.
4 - We need a day, on an ongoing basis, to drill the community about these guidelines so they don't forget and so that these guidelines become a habit they automatically adhere to. How about every seventh day? This will also give them a break in their routine and give them a chance to get to know their neighbors.
3 - 2 - 1 Finally, these poor saps that we lead, and who make us wealthy, only let us get away with this because we've told them that some big-*** god has given you and I these positions of luxury and authority. And, we've also told them that if they have a problem with this arrangement that this same big-*** god will light them on fire for eternity. It occurs to me that we should figure out a way to keep them from inventing and worshiping some other god and that they should respect the one that you and me have told them about.
I'd like us to be able to keep and enjoy as much of our wealth and life of luxury as possible. Anytime there is civil unrest or disobedience, it's going to cost you and me some of our wealth and time away from our life of luxury to take care of the problem. The better you can convince the community to adopt these guidelines, the better off you and I will be in the long run. I've tentatively numbered these guidelines in an order that I thought might be best.

Lastly and most importantly, we need to be able to justify this new idea of yours of "Land Ownership." Since no one in authority is around here to give it to us or sell it to us, we are going to have to convince the people that some spook, spirit, god, or ghost, granted it to us to manage; otherwise you and me are really ******.

Sincerely,
Your Group Leader
c.c. The Ruling Class members

The following letter might have been sent out to the working class.

Memo

From: the Ruling Class

To: the Worker Bee

Date: 6,500 BCE

My Dear Worker Bee,

Do not be concerned with how difficult your life is, making us wealthy, or how we deceived you into creating wealth for us to fulfill our selfish greed and desires, for we promise you that there is a heavenly paradise for you to live in forever, once you have finished working your sorry-*** off for us.

By the way, have we mentioned how bad and sinful you are today? You should go to the Temple-Church and repent as soon as possible, and ask for forgiveness. Be sure to pay a tithing while you are there confessing your sins; and be sure to use the latest definitions of sin that we gave you, which will change on occasion to fit our wealth-generating strategic needs, regardless our your needs.

In the future, don't be overly concerned about losing your natural skills for (1) hunting and gathering food to feed yourself, (2) building yourself a shelter, (3) finding your own water source, (4) or getting rid of your waste products. We will be launching a new campaign to make you more dependent on us by (1) building grocery stores so that you will have to buy food from us (because we will own all the land -making it impossible for you to hunt and gather food on your own), (2) building ready made homes that you will have to buy from us, along with the land that the home sits on, (3) building water treatment plants so that you will have to buy drinking water from us, (4) building waste treatment plants so that you will have to pay us to get rid of your waste products. I almost forgot, we will also be convincing you that these are all modern conveniences; all you have to do is come up with the money to pay us for it all, including the taxes.

Since you will no longer be working to hunt and gather your own food, you will be working for us in the future. The distance between your home and your place of work will be a significant distance, making it impossible for you to get to work, on time, by just walking. It is my understanding that there will be something called an "automobile" invented, that you will be able to buy from us to get you to work on time, so that you will be able to earn enough money to pay for everything we have mentioned earlier. This "automobile" will require a type of fuel which will be called "gasoline," which you will also have to buy from us; including the required accessories, such as license plates and "automobile" insurance.

This should complete the major portion of our strategic plan for you to become completely dependent upon us. Next week we will send you a memo concerning some other "need-to-buy" items coming in the future that will be called health care, prescription drugs, health insurance, and life insurance.

With love, affection, and sincere concern for your well-being,

The Ruling Class

The ironic and the ingenious thing about this Ruling Class model (scheme), is that the same model used to train Worker Bees, was adopted by the Worker Bees as an essential human need; therefore they were unwilling to give it up. In essence, the Ruling Class had created an addiction to the very model that oppressed the Worker Bees in the first place.

[michel]

I'm no great church-goer, but I think that's a tad judgemental.

[EnhancedSpirit]

I do not mean to sound judgemental. It's only an observation. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I am one of the worker bees, from a long family of worker bees. But I also know several of the Ruling Class, and do not judge them, I can not place blame on any one, this is just the way things worked out. I could not see the forest through the trees until I stepped back and looked at the bigger picture.

[EnhancedSpirit]

I know longer live as a worker bee for man. I seek wisdom and help others. I pay my bills and feed my children, but I do not work a 9 to 5 job. I spread the Lord's truth and he provides me with what I need, not the government, and not the church.

[robtex]

So enhancedspirt if I am understanding you correctly you are saying that the denotation of the 10 commandments is different than the connotation. Is this correct? If so, starting with the first one you listed..# 6. You said, " Lets not kill each other. But in times of war against us lets kill the enemy." I am understand the that many Christians translate that commandment as thou shall not murder as opposed to thou shall not kill.

But saying it is thou shall not kill ...and a christian nation or settlement is invaded by others..irregardless of the purpose of that invasion. Upon upholding their interpretation of the 6th to say thou shall not kill..they do not defend the attack but attempt to flee. The children and weaker elderly cannot flee and are slaughtered. Did the stronger members of that society help the invaders kill their elderly and children by not resisting (assuming they could) or did they obey their lord Jesus by not killing?

Is it reasonable for a believer to say there is never a reason to kill, even in self defense or is the context of the 10 commandments a backdrop for an alternate intrepretation ? In the book of exodus as in the rest of the torah God and man both kill side by side from the red sea to the wars of the holy lands the holy wars are raged and God seems pleased. Even Moses, who held the tablets in his very hands kills a man the very first time he is read about in the Bible.

I would contend that

a) killing is not always avoidable and as such the absolute interpretation of the commandment does not hold

b) God and man killed side by side through the torah suggesting in context, "that man shall not kill" was on many levels contingent as opposed to absolute.

[anders]

Originally Posted by EnhancedSpirit

Every church I have ever visited was run as a business.

In a Church of Sweden parish, matters of finance are discussed in public once a year, when the budget is established. I find no similarities at all with businesses. A business needs to find customers to get money. Not the CoS. The fundings are automatic and relayed via the taxation system. Rather funny, because we have a strict state-church separation (although there might still be a paragraph on the Sovereign's faith).

The products of the CoS, like services, are normally advertised, but this constitutes just a cost, not resulting in income of any kind. Nothing like business there.

I don't know how things are managed in " Free Churches", like Pentecostals and Baptists, of which I think there are a few in Sweden. In any case, they should receive a Church tax like the CoS, RC and Muslims, based on members.

And from my Swedish perspective, I just don't understand

Originally Posted by EnhancedSpirit

It's all about money and power.

What power? Certainly not any in any legal or administrative sense. The only religious power I can think of here is when a group of Jewish intellectuals and sympathizers managed to have Yiddish acknowledged as a minority language in Sweden, despite its not fulfilling the EU criteria. Another example, rather PC than religious, was when efforts to ban genital mutilation of boys below the age of possible informed consent were thwarted. But we prohibit the docking of puppy dogs' tails!

[EnhancedSpirit]

Originally Posted by robtex

So enhancedspirt if I am understanding you correctly you are saying that the denotation of the 10 commandments is different than the connotation. Is this correct? If so, starting with the first one you listed..# 6. You said, " Lets not kill each other. But in times of war against us lets kill the enemy." I am understand the that many Christians translate that commandment as thou shall not murder as opposed to thou shall not kill.

But saying it is thou shall not kill ...and a christian nation or settlement is invaded by others..irregardless of the purpose of that invasion. Upon upholding their interpretation of the 6th to say thou shall not kill..they do not defend the attack but attempt to flee. The children and weaker elderly cannot flee and are slaughtered. Did the stronger members of that society help the invaders kill their elderly and children by not resisting (assuming they could) or did they obey their lord Jesus by not killing?

Is it reasonable for a believer to say there is never a reason to kill, even in self defense or is the context of the 10 commandments a backdrop for an alternate intrepretation ? In the book of exodus as in the rest of the torah God and man both kill side by side from the red sea to the wars of the holy lands the holy wars are raged and God seems pleased. Even Moses, who held the tablets in his very hands kills a man the very first time he is read about in the Bible.

I would contend that

a) killing is not always avoidable and as such the absolute interpretation of the commandment does not hold

b) God and man killed side by side through the torah suggesting in context, "that man shall not kill" was on many levels contingent as opposed to absolute.

First, the 10 commandments came before the Christian. And it is not just the Christians who have started wars in the name of God.
And I see that as a condradiction. Thou shall not kill.
That's what the commandment says. There is no "except".

And let me ask you this; did Jesus defend himself, did he fight for his life? No, Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek, and to love our enemies. But men who claim to be religious, claim to follow God, ignore even his 10 simple rules. Even if you have not been in a war yourself. What you think matters, and anyone who 'thinks' it's OK to go to war is just as guilty in the eyes of God as a murderer.

[EnhancedSpirit]

What power? Certainly not any in any legal or administrative sense.

I don't know of any one in a Higher position in society that doesn't feel a sense of Power. And this is set for 1000's of years ago, and today is the byproduct of those actions. We are all in a position to be dependent on our government for health care, child care, public schools, social security for the elderly. Of course this is only the point of view of a US citizen.

Also, all of the religious crusades of the past were about power. You can't say that all the people who were killed for not converting to christianity were killed for their own good. No they were killed by power hungry people wanting to control the people and used the name of God and his son to do so.