Logical 10 Commandments (Jesus, Moses, Torah, paradise, exodus)

[Khale]

I just had to jump into this with my two cents. This is from an earlier post of mine:

The Meaning of Kill in the Ten Commandments

Ratsach appears 47 times in the OT. It is never used in the context of legitimate war, or in the case of self-defense (Ex 22:2), accidental killing (Dt 19:5), or in the execution of a person who has forfeited his life by "shedding man's blood" (Gn 9:6). It is also not used in the text describing how Moses slayed the Egyptian taskmaster (Ex 2:12). All of these Scriptures use a different word not found in the Sixth Commandment [Protestant version of Bible, it is the 5th in the Catholic version]. And clearly Scripture supports certain kinds of killing as viscerally regrettable but righteous nevertheless.


The word, ratsach, does refer to killing for revenge (Nm 35:27, 30), and the premeditated killing of an innocent person (2 Kings 6:32). Therefore, when the Word says, "It is mine to avenge, I will repay, says the Lord" (Rom 12:19) there is a direct connection and precaution against usurping the role of God that relates directly to this Sixth Commandment. Only two lines later there is a designation as to whom God has delegated authority to in order to avenge wrongs done (Rom 13:1). The government then, and not the individual, has the right to punish for past offenses.

[EnhancedSpirit]

God does not 'MURDER' people. People die. That is a natural thing and there is nothing wrong with dying. Innocent women and children are not murdered by God. They are brought to him. I just watched a documentary on John Walsh and his son Adam. What happened to Adam was a terrible tragedy. But how many lives have been saved because of his fathers crusade against missing children? And how many criminals have been brought to justice because of John Walsh's Americas Most Wanted? Everything happens for a reason. And when something happens do you address the situation with anger and hatred, or love and understanding? I know of many people who have lost their children, to drunk drivers, or illness, or 'freak' accidents. Have you heard the story of the mustard seed?

A distraut woman came to Buddha wanting him to resurect her son. He told her to do so, she must find him a mustard seed from a house that has seen no death. So she went out to every house in town. She did not find a mustard seed. But what she found was in everyhouse another story of loss of a loved one. She learned that she was not alone in her pain. And she recieved a higher understanding.

I do appreciate the clarification of murder over kill. But, many religions have 'murdered' merely because someone did not believe what they believed. Trying to justify it does not make it right.

[EnhancedSpirit]

Oh, and Robtex, I guess by your definition Jesus was a wuss. That's part of the reason why the Jew didn't except him. By their definition, the Saviour was going to be a warrior type. Men and their egos. I tell you, they feel like there is only one way to do things. Haven't you ever heard that you can catch more bees with honey?

[michel]

I must say, Rob, that holding God responsible for the 'murder' of children, whilst it explains your motives for being an atheist, is a little bit 'far fetched'. Is it really your understanding that those who believe in God see him as being 'responsible' for everything that happens on Earth ?

[EnhancedSpirit]

Jewscout, taking things out of context

And now about these enemies of mine who didn't want me to be their king--bring them in and execute them right here in my presence.' Luke 19:27

Try This:

Luke 19:11 The crowd was listening to everything Jesus said. And because he was nearing Jerusalem, he told a story to correct the impression that the Kingdom of God would begin right away. 12 He said, "A nobleman was called away to a distant empire to be crowned king and then return. 13 Before he left, he called together ten servants and gave them ten pounds of silver F85 to invest for him while he was gone. 14 But his people hated him and sent a delegation after him to say they did not want him to be their king. 15 "When he returned, the king called in the servants to whom he had given the money. He wanted to find out what they had done with the money and what their profits were. 16 The first servant reported a tremendous gain – ten times as much as the original amount! 17 'Well done!' the king exclaimed. 'You are a trustworthy servant. You have been faithful with the little I entrusted to you, so you will be governor of ten cities as your reward.' 18 "The next servant also reported a good gain – five times the original amount. 19 'Well done!' the king said. 'You can be governor over five cities.' 20 "But the third servant brought back only the original amount of money and said, 'I hid it and kept it safe. 21 I was afraid because you are a hard man to deal with, taking what isn't yours and harvesting crops you didn't plant.' 22 "'You wicked servant!' the king roared. 'Hard, am I? If you knew so much about me and how tough I am, 23 why didn't you deposit the money in the bank so I could at least get some interest on it?' 24 Then turning to the others standing nearby, the king ordered, 'Take the money from this servant, and give it to the one who earned the most.' 25 "'But, master,' they said, 'that servant has enough already!' 26 "'Yes,' the king replied, 'but to those who use well what they are given, even more will be given. But from those who are unfaithful, F86 even what little they have will be taken away. 27 And now about these enemies of mine who didn't want me to be their king – bring them in and execute them right here in my presence.'"
28 After telling this story, Jesus went on toward Jerusalem, walking ahead of his disciples.

Jesus did not tell them to bring him his enemies. This was a parable not a literal. He was not really talking about money, he was talking about spiritual gifts and he was speaking of spiritual death.

[EnhancedSpirit]

Jesus told them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, because I have come to you from God. I am not here on my own, but he sent me. 43 Why can't you understand what I am saying? It is because you are unable to do so! 44 For you are the children of your father the Devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning and has always hated the truth. There is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies. John 8:42-44

Jewscout, this is not meant to be a put down, this is a fact, the Devil is not a seperate entity. The devil is the flesh. A manifestation of our sins. Man is the devil, by his own words or deeds. That is the choice we must make, light or darkness. You are the child of the devil, because our physical fathers sinned. But we are also the children of God, who gives us everlasting life, outside of the physical. This is not Jesus talking bad about God's chosen people, he is reminding his people that they are no better than another human. He is reminding his people that they must look within themselves to find the truth.

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by EnhancedSpirit

Oh, and Robtex, I guess by your definition Jesus was a wuss. That's part of the reason why the Jew didn't except him. By their definition, the Saviour was going to be a warrior type. Men and their egos.

some think that...others believe that the Moshiach ben David will be a spiritual leader

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by EnhancedSpirit

Jewscout, this is not meant to be a put down, this is a fact, the Devil is not a seperate entity. The devil is the flesh. A manifestation of our sins. Man is the devil, by his own words or deeds. That is the choice we must make, light or darkness. You are the child of the devil, because our physical fathers sinned. But we are also the children of God, who gives us everlasting life, outside of the physical. This is not Jesus talking bad about God's chosen people, he is reminding his people that they are no better than another human. He is reminding his people that they must look within themselves to find the truth.

Haven't you ever heard that you can catch more bees with honey

perhaps though he would have better phrased it so as to not make the window open for an excuse of 2000 of violence against Jews