Genesis 1:6

[outhouse]

the original document that was found during the days of King Josiah and Hilkiah the priest in the mid 6th century bce.

wrong, your only partially right


Documentary hypothesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wellhausen's starting point for dating the sources was the event described in 2 Kings 22:8–20: a "scroll of Torah" (which can be translated "instruction" or "law") is discovered in the Temple in Jerusalem by the High Priest Hilkiah in the eighteenth year of king Josiah, who had ascended the throne as a child of eight. What Josiah reads there causes him to embark on a campaign of religious reform, destroying all altars except that in the Temple, prohibiting all sacrifice except at the Temple, and insisting on the exclusive worship of Yahweh. In the 4th century Jerome had speculated that the scroll may have been Deuteronomy; de Wette in 1805 suggested that it might have been only the law-code at Deuteronomy 12–26 that Hilkiah found, and that he might have written it himself, alone or in collaboration with Josiah. The Deuteronomistic historian certainly held Josiah in high regard: 1 Kings 13 names him as one who will be sent by Yahweh to slaughter the apostate priests of Beth-el, in a prophecy allegedly made 300 years before his birth.

[outhouse]

Originally Posted by Thief

And of course faith needs no proving.

Still waiting for that photograph and fingerprint, I see.

you can avoid the truth your whole life.

thats not what this thread is about.

This is about the real history of our world.

the earth was not created in 6 days
man evolved, he was not created
there was no worldwide flood
man spoke many languages before the tower of babal
there was no ark
woman did not come from mans rib
there was no talking snake
we are all not inbreed from adam and eve

These are all facts

It is also a fact moses did not sit down and write any part of the OT

[james2ko]

Originally Posted by outhouse

Great reply, i'll give you a D+ for effort. To bad it has no merit or ties to moses at all. I like replys like this because you tried, but lets get down to real facts. do yourself a favor, and me. When you plagiarize someone elses work post a link as required at this website. Your basicaly quote mining.

I am certainly no expert on ancient semitic languages and based on your myriad of links, you aren't either. Btw, permission was granted by the particular site to quote any material as long as it was not used for commercial purposes.

Might I remind you, my reply was to your claim that Moses did not write anything:

Originally Posted by outhouse

moses was still using a hammer and chisel, he wrote nothing if he even existed at all.

With the implication being he could not write, which was utterly refuted and as Pegg pointed out, we have all the historical proof we need from the biblical writers themselves. Your choice not to believe this source is a matter of faith and not a lack of historical evidence.

[Thief]

Originally Posted by outhouse

you can avoid the truth your whole life.

thats not what this thread is about.

This is about the real history of our world.

the earth was not created in 6 days
man evolved, he was not created
there was no worldwide flood
man spoke many languages before the tower of babal
there was no ark
woman did not come from mans rib
there was no talking snake
we are all not inbreed from adam and eve

These are all facts

It is also a fact moses did not sit down and write any part of the OT

All 'facts' are continually debatable.

Proof is something else....which I don't need for this thread.
and if you go back to the op, you will see what this thread is about.

[outhouse]

permission was granted by the particular site to quote any material as long as it was not used for commercial purposes.

this website requires links, despite the original websites authorization

[outhouse]

With the implication being he could not write, which was utterly refuted and as Pegg pointed out, we have all the historical proof we need from the biblical writers themselves. Your choice not to believe this source is a matter of faith and not a lack of historical evidence.

I understand your point, first you must prove he even existed before you can debate if he could even write.

so far he is as much a myth as a real person.


nothing was refuted with any accuracy


I did state he was using a chisel and hammer, that goes with the stone writing of the egyptions as well cuneiform. This was a stretch on my part for your side.

now if you want clarification about "he wrote nothing" I could have said on papyrus or paper OR in modern hebrew text.

You all fail to recognize the oral tradition used. basically you embarrass yourselves. Some of the links I posted take both sides but you refuse to do any work except a one sided biased view no one with any historical credibility uses. I know the work already in the links I posted and im trying to educate you. my links have nothing to do with what i have learned.

you have no cuneiform from moses, you have no egyption writings. you have nothing.

[esmith]

As it is well known the JEDP Theory was written by Julius Welhausen (1844-1918) and comprised of the following segments

1. J= Yahwist who wrote a history of Israel in the 10th century BCE covering the period of creation to the death of Moses
2. E=Elohist who wrote a history of Israel in the 9th century BCE covering the period from Abraham to the death of Moses
3. D=Deuteronomist who wrote the book of Deuteronomy in the 7th century BCE. Unlike other books of the Torah it has no contradictions to itself but does contradict some previous statements in the earlier books. Focused solely on Moses
4. P= Priestly source and is dated to the 5th century BCE. It covers the history of Israel from creation to the time of Moses
Welhausen theorized that a redactor, in the 5th century BCE, complied the Torah into its final form from all of the above inputs.

To take a critical look at this theory (which is still subscribed to) we have to remember that “scholars are a product of their time”. Welhausen was a Protestant (Lutheran) Germany scholar. During this period of time in Germany anti-Jewish and anti-Catholic views were expressed in society and scholarly work. How does this affect the theory one might ask. You will notice that Welhausen has authors from the 10th, 9th, 7th, and 5th centuries. What about the 8th century? During the 8th century BCE this was the time of the classical prophecies, four of the great prophets wrote during this time. These prophets stressed morals and ethics. For Protestants, this is where the emphases of their teaching are to be found. It was very important for Welhausen to date the D&P sources after the time of the prophets. So “D” went to the 7th century because it is associated with law and legal matters. The “P” source is mainly cultic material about how to worship God, and how to sacrifice; these were “priestly” duties.

Now, the possible problem with his theory is in the Hebrew language. As we know language changes with social and political change. We see Babylonian “loan” words entering into Hebrew language. The Persian Period was late 6th century, 5th, and 4th, but we see no Persian “loan” words in the first 5 books of the bible. Welhausen has an author from the 5th century (“P” source) but no Persian loan words. I am not saying that there was one author for the first 5 books. There are too many contradictions for only one author. I do believe that there was a redactor who took writings from different authors and compiled them into one work. The redactor left in the contradictions because he or she felt that the works were holy and should be left in from the different authors. We must also remember that the bible is a literary work using oral to aural conveyance.

[outhouse]

Originally Posted by esmith

As it is well known the JEDP Theory was written by Julius Welhausen (1844-1918) and comprised of the following segments

1. J= Yahwist who wrote a history of Israel in the 10th century BCE covering the period of creation to the death of Moses
2. E=Elohist who wrote a history of Israel in the 9th century BCE covering the period from Abraham to the death of Moses
3. D=Deuteronomist who wrote the book of Deuteronomy in the 7th century BCE. Unlike other books of the Torah it has no contradictions to itself but does contradict some previous statements in the earlier books. Focused solely on Moses
4. P= Priestly source and is dated to the 5th century BCE. It covers the history of Israel from creation to the time of Moses
Welhausen theorized that a redactor, in the 5th century BCE, complied the Torah into its final form from all of the above inputs.

To take a critical look at this theory (which is still subscribed to) we have to remember that “scholars are a product of their time”. Welhausen was a Protestant (Lutheran) Germany scholar. During this period of time in Germany anti-Jewish and anti-Catholic views were expressed in society and scholarly work. How does this affect the theory one might ask. You will notice that Welhausen has authors from the 10th, 9th, 7th, and 5th centuries. What about the 8th century? During the 8th century BCE this was the time of the classical prophecies, four of the great prophets wrote during this time. These prophets stressed morals and ethics. For Protestants, this is where the emphases of their teaching are to be found. It was very important for Welhausen to date the D&P sources after the time of the prophets. So “D” went to the 7th century because it is associated with law and legal matters. The “P” source is mainly cultic material about how to worship God, and how to sacrifice; these were “priestly” duties.

Now, the possible problem with his theory is in the Hebrew language. As we know language changes with social and political change. We see Babylonian “loan” words entering into Hebrew language. The Persian Period was late 6th century, 5th, and 4th, but we see no Persian “loan” words in the first 5 books of the bible. Welhausen has an author from the 5th century (“P” source) but no Persian loan words. I am not saying that there was one author for the first 5 books. There are too many contradictions for only one author. I do believe that there was a redactor who took writings from different authors and compiled them into one work. The redactor left in the contradictions because he or she felt that the works were holy and should be left in from the different authors. We must also remember that the bible is a literary work using oral to aural conveyance.

now this is a good middle of the road view

[outhouse]

lets find out if moses was more then a stolen myth

The story of the baby in the little ark woven of reeds is a favorite among some scholars who believe Moses was a creation of the ancient Hebrews' binding together their own national epic out of the tales of neighbors. They point out that a birth narrative of Sargon of Akkad, a Mesopotamian King who ruled in the millennium before Moses, reads, "My priestly mother conceived me, in secret she bore me. She set me in a basket of rushes, with bitumen she sealed my lid." There is also the Egyptian legend of the god Horus, who is hidden in the Nile delta by his mother Isis to protect him from the wrath of his uncle Seth.

In Search Of Moses - TIME

the answer is no, he never existed but the story was taken from previous pagan religions

as I have stated from the beginning

[outhouse]

If moses was more then myth could he read, this is from the OT


from the same link


Like many prophets to come, Moses is reluctant to take up the burden. "I have marked well the plight of my people in Egypt and have heeded their outcry," announces God. "I have come down to rescue them from the Egyptians." Moses responds with excuses and conditions: "I am slow of tongue and slow of speech."