Jesus is not God (attending, doctrine, church, scriptures, bible)

[Halcyon]

Linwood, i think you'd make a very good Gnostic .

The fact is Yeshua never actually said he was God or God's only son, as far as i'm concerned only Yeshua's testimony is important, St. Paul could shout at me that Yeshua was God until he was blue in the face, i would not listen to him for he was not Yeshua, his opinion is his not mine.

[No*s]

Originally Posted by Halcyon

Linwood, i think you'd make a very good Gnostic .

The fact is Yeshua never actually said he was God or God's only son, as far as i'm concerned only Yeshua's testimony is important, St. Paul could shout at me that Yeshua was God until he was blue in the face, i would not listen to him for he was not Yeshua, his opinion is his not mine.

Sure He did .

In Mk. 2, Jesus healed a pralytic man, and proclaimed "Your sins are forgiven." The people around Him objected, because "only God can forgive sins." Jesus responded, not by saying "I'm not God," but "which is easier to say to the paralytic, `Your sins are forgiven you,' or to say, `Arise, take up your bed and walk'? But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins...I say to you, arise take up your bed, and go to your house." He never denies the charge. Rather, he seems to emphasize His power to forgive sins.

Christ declared that He "fulfilled" the Law, and used that authority to dictate a new way of interpreting it and understanding it. Starting in Mt. 5.21, He repeatedly quotes from the Law and says "You have heard that it was said to those of old," quotes a law, and proceeds to change something about the Law God gave by saying "but I say to you," not "thus saith the Lord," but "I." Who would He be to tamper with the Law of God if He were not the Lawgiver?

In Mt 28.19, Christ commands that people baptize "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." How, though, could these three be equated in one practice. That's a strong statement when instituting a religious ceremony.

Jn. 3.13 says "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in Heaven." In the same Gospel, Jesus asserts "I and my Father are one." In the passage immediately following, and the people tried to stone him, saying "You being a man make yourself God." How does He respond? It wasn't by denying it, but by saying "Is it not written in your law, `I said, ``You are gods?''' If He called them gods to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, `You are blaspheming,' because I said, `I am the Son of God?' If I do not the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me and I in Him." The listeners didn't understand this as a denial either. They decided to follow through with stoning Him.

The central ceremony of Christianity is the Eucharist where Christ asserted that followers were eating "His flesh" and drinking "His blood." Christ commanded this ceremony to be held after He left (Lk. 22.14ff.), and He asserted that the one that doesn't eat His flesh has no life in him (Jn 6.53ff.).

So, Jesus did several things equating Him with God, and we have no record of Him ever denying it when it was put to Him .

[sandy whitelinger]

Jesus Himself declared His divinity. I'll start with this from Matthew 22:

"[41] While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
[42] Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
[43] He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
[44] The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
[45] If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
[46] And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions. (KJV)

[andy]

Husband and wife are one, one in unity. Husband & wife are not one being.

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

You and I are also one in them, this does not make us gods because we are one in them. Also the world may believe that thou hast sent me. Jesus did not send himself.

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.
Jesus declares the word you hear is not his but the father's who sent Jesus!!!

John 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Jesus came from God, Jesus did not send himself.

[andy]

It amazes me even in this day the word is used against Jesus. Jesus was accused of breaking the law when he healed(worked) on the Sabbath. Woman was caught in the act of cheating and the punishment was death and Jesus said no death, Jesus was told the law was death.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Jesus was dead for 3 days and nights and yet was in heaven, Jesus was going to be with God.

I will get many other scriptures to combat what Jesus stated in John 20:17, why is not what Jesus said enough? Many will quote what others have said but will not follow what Jesus stated. Please respond.

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by Steve

Here is an OT verse's that support Jesus.

Isaiah 53:4 -6
Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.
But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

Now if that isnt a prophecy about the Jesus of the new Testament i dont know what u would consider one to be.

sure it is...and my rabbi serves a freshly cooked ham on Shabbat...
Isaiah isn't talking about one man...he is talking about the entire nation of Israel...
in the verse just before this Rashi points out through the grammer in the hebrew...

Originally Posted by Isaiah 53:3

3. Despised and rejected by men, a man of pains and accustomed to illness, and as one who hides his face from us, despised and we held him of no account.

Originally Posted by Rashi

Despised and rejected by men was he. So is the custom of this prophet: he mentions all Israel as one man, e.g., (44:2), “Fear not, My servant Jacob” ; (44:1) “And now, hearken, Jacob, My servant.” Here too (52:13), “Behold My servant shall prosper,” he said concerning the house of Jacob.

I can see though how it could be interpreted as being about Jesus...but...again that's not a traditionally jewish interpretation of this verse...
It's talking about the redemption of Israel during the coming Messiahnic era...it is also discussing the coming of the destruction of the First Temple i think...
And for the record...i've talked about this at great length...in the jewish mindset...Jesus of Nazerath is not the Moshiach ben David

[fromthe heart]

Originally Posted by andy

Many years I did not believe in God and had no religion. It was not until I met my wife I seen the light. You see my wife was a Born again Christian and to get on her good side I attended her Church when we first met. I started to read the Bible on my own and I was caught up in the word. When I read the Bible I did not even hear or think Jesus was ever God. It was not until I started attending Church on a regular basis the concept of a Trinity.

Hi andy and welcome to the forums....this is a tough topic...I'm not positive about any of it because of the different things in scripture so the way I believe is just a personal thing unless I find myself met with scripture that sends my mind in the direction of otherwise...I believe in the trinity mostly because Jesus called on His Father in the garden prior to His death 3 times...would one pray to oneself? He also said that you could not speak bad about the Holy Ghost and be forgiven but you could speak about Him and be forgiven...this leads me to believe that although they are seperate they are most definately of one thought. I will never claim to understand the Supreme because I have a human mind and not like the Lords which I don't feel we can fully understand until we meet God and He is made known to us in a fashion completely full of understanding. I don't feel we are to know all that is GOD...I don't feel the human mind is capeable of the awsomness of this great God that controls the all of His creations.

[linwood]

Hey guys,

I`m not ignoring this thread you`ve just all thrown alot of scripture out there and I`m trying to take a look at it in context so I`ll post something soon.

By the way from what I`ve seen so far some of what Scott said immediately after my last post seems to have the most validity.

[Halcyon]

I am the son of God, just as you are also the sons and daughters of God, why would jesus deny that?

Jesus never says he is divine, i've looked, you can read whatever you like into his simple statements, its never going to change them into a declaration of his divinity.

[yaakov]

I would just like to pass on a personal observation. never are we asked to believe that jesus is god, only the son of god :with the authority to forgive sins.