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  #91  
Old 07-03-2011, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by gnostic View Post
I don't see how that would be possible.
For one, how could Moses receive any writing from Adam.
Historically, the earliest Semitic writings come from the Akkadians in the Mesopotamia, around the 2nd quarter of the 3rd millennium BCE (about 2350 BCE), followed by the Old Babylonian writing adopted by the Amorite dynasty of Old Babylonian empire (from early 1900 to 1700 BCE). Hebrew language and writing didn't exist at the time.
Second, Genesis 5:1 say that it was an ACCOUNT of Adam and his descendants (up to Noah's generation), hence his genealogy, NOT A BOOK WRITTEN BY ADAM!!!!
It doesn't say Adam was an author, just that he was the head of the family line.
Third, it is not possible for Adam to write this Book of Generations. Adam died at the age of 930. When Noah was born, Adam was already dead for 126 years. Even longer if you follow the Septuagint; Adam would have been dead for 712 years!!!
And at the very last entry in Genesis 5 is that Noah was 500 when he became the father of Shem, Ham and Japheth.
This would mean that Adam would have written this so-called Book of Generations 626 YEARS AFTER HIS DEATH.
So it is really nonsense to say that Adam pass any book he had written to Moses.
Not a direct book pass of course. You're right that would be nonsense.
...but from where or whom did Noah get that account ?

Did anything in writing 'Not on the Ark' survive the Flood? No.
Pre-flood artifacts would have to be on non-perishable materials.

Account received from Adam.... preserved by others to Noah time [via Ark] ....preserved by others to Moses time.

Adam would have spoken and written in Hebrew.

Gen [5v1] Moses was writing that this is the book of Adam's history [historical origins] 'Generations' [see Gen 2v4] [perhaps scroll-type book]

Matt [1v1] makes mention the book of history [origin] Hebrew: toh.ledhoth'
and Luke concludes that history [3v38] with Adam son of God.
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  #92  
Old 07-06-2011, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by uravip2me
Adam would have spoken and written in Hebrew.
That's an assumption that you have no way to verify.

If Adam did exist, he would live through much of the 4th millennium BCE (3999-3000 BCE).

(As a side-note, according to the Wikipedia page about the Flood, it has been dated to 2340 BCE. In the Genesis, from Adam to Noah's Flood is 1656 years (or 1656 AM). If that had been the case then Adam was created in 3996 BCE and his death would have occurred about 3066 BCE. So 726 years between Adam's death and Noah embarking on the Flood.)

My point with the dating, is that there are no historical or literary evidences that Hebrew language was ever used (spoken or written) in the 4th millennium BCE...Or even the 3rd millennium BCE for that matter.

Moses supposed living in the 3rd quarter of the 2nd millennium BCE.

(Abraham's covenant occurred in 2033 AM, so dated to 1963 BCE. According to Exodus 12:40-41, 430 years between the Covenant and Moses's exodus out of Egypt began.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exodus 12:40-41
Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.
And it came to pass at the end of the four hundred and thirty years, even the selfsame day it came to pass, that all the hosts of the LORD went out from the land of Egypt.
So Moses leading the Israelites would have occurred in 2463 AM or 1533 BCE. At Moses' death, Joshua led the Israelites to invade Canaan, 40 years later, in 2503 AM or 1493 BCE.)

1493 BCE is a bad time for the Canaan invasion because it would put in the reign of Thutmosis II (1503-1491 BCE), who was father of Thutmosis III (1471-1458 BCE). Hatshepsut (1491-1471 BCE) was consort to Thutmosis II, but only a stepmother to Thutmosis III. Between 1530 and 1458 BCE, Canaan (as well as Syria) was in the hands the rulers of Egypt.

There archaeological evidences are there, as well as well-documented historical evidences in Egypt, so there is absolutely no way for Israelites to occur at this time.

My own datings of Genesis and Exodus is different and the events would have historically occurred much later, which would have been at the time of Egypt was weaker in imperial and foreign spheres, particularly in Canaan.

See my 3 tables on my webpage on the Timeline of the Patriarchs (from Dark Mirrors of Heaven website). The last timeline give date from Abraham's covenant to Moses' death, according to my own calculation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uravip2me
Did anything in writing 'Not on the Ark' survive the Flood? No.
Pre-flood artifacts would have to be on non-perishable materials.
Historically, archaeologically and even geologically, there were no evidences of Flood occurring at any time of the 2nd half of 3rd millennium BCE.

There are no breaks in Egyptian and Mesopotamian civilisations at this time.

According to the genealogy in Genesis 10, Egypt only existed after the Flood, because Egypt was a son of Ham. This is totally absurd, considering Egypt existed before the supposed Flood, for example the Pyramids of Giza were built by 4th dynasty. There were also many pyramids built by Egyptians, even earlier than those of Giza, in the 3rd dynasty too. Egyptian hieroglyphs began in the 1st dynasty, perhaps even earlier than that.
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  #93  
Old 07-07-2011, 12:44 AM
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If Adam did exist, he would live through much of the 4th millennium BCE (3999-3000 BCE).
what kind of guess is that????


Quote:
See my 3 tables on my webpage on the Timeline of the Patriarchs (from Dark Mirrors of Heaven website). The last timeline give date from Abraham's covenant to Moses' death, according to my own calculation.

you do understand hebrews as a culture started roughly 1250BC ish

there is ZERO historicity before this, including dates or guesses of any kind for hebrews.

Women were created twice because of the two creation storys that were merged together at a later date.
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  #94  
Old 07-07-2011, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by outhouse
you do understand hebrews as a culture started roughly 1250BC ish

there is ZERO historicity before this, including dates or guesses of any kind for hebrews.
Yes, I know in both cases.

The only evidences supporting of Israel's existence is in the victory stele of Merneptah. Merneptah was a ruler of the 19th dynasty, son of Rameses II. It is the first and only reference of Israel outside of Israel/Canaan in the 2nd millennium BCE.

I've provided the calculation/estimates of dating of biblical events, and trying to align it with historical information, and it illustrate how the bible's version of history (in Genesis and Exodus), don't in any way match with actual history because it is not history.

The Canaan invasion is the perfect example to show that there was no such invasion or mass migration from Egypt happened.
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Last edited by gnostic; 07-07-2011 at 04:55 PM..
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  #95  
Old 07-07-2011, 11:48 PM
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I've provided the calculation/estimates of dating of biblical events,
ya that thousand year gap in your adam guess threw me.

imnot sure they existed outside of myth
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  #96  
Old 07-08-2011, 12:00 AM
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Very simple to awnser God created male and female spirit and then created physically. Not hard to understand. Wasnt double creation in that sense and yes i know it doesnt specificaly say "spirit" but it was.
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  #97  
Old 07-08-2011, 09:24 PM
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Thought I'd add, the Seputagint date puts Adam more around 5500 B.C., not 4000, and thus the flood around 3500-3000 ish, with groups like the Sumerians (Shem-arians) around 2900-2800.
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  #98  
Old 07-10-2011, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Shermana View Post
Thought I'd add, the Seputagint date puts Adam more around 5500 B.C., not 4000, and thus the flood around 3500-3000 ish, with groups like the Sumerians (Shem-arians) around 2900-2800.
From Adam's creation to the birth of his son Seth to Noah's birth 182 yrs.
From Noah's birth to Flood is 600 yrs.
Total from Adam to Flood = 1,656 yrs.

Bible chronology puts:
Creation of Adam 4026 BCE
Flood 2370 BCE
Abrahamic covenant 1943 BCE
Exodus from Egypt 1513 BCE
Temple construction 1034 BCE
Division of the kingdom 997 BCE
Desolation of Judah 607 BCE
Returning Jews from exile 537 BCE
Rebuilding Jerusalem's walls 455 BCE
Jesus baptism 29 CE/AD

Egypt was a world full of divine myths and miracles and scribes did not have to be above juggling chronology of their events. Isn't it hard to discern what it authentic works of Manetho and what was corrupted? The length of some reigns are found to be impossible and even some names can't be defended in light of evidence. [Manetho pp vii,xvii,xx,xxi,xxv]

The stele on which Merneptah, son of Ramses II, gloats over the conquest of Israel is the only known mention of Israel to be found in ancient Egyptian texts.
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  #99  
Old 07-10-2011, 07:29 PM
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and the whole point above is

There is no "real" ancient hebrew history beyond 1250BC with any historicity
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  #100  
Old 07-10-2011, 07:39 PM
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I love any chance to say "historicity."

And "feckless." Could you work feckless into the discussion, please, Outhouse?
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