Baha'i Faith and Martyrdom (followers, hell, mission, prophet, suicide)

[ayani]

hey- i'd like to ask some questions about the Baha'i Faith and how Baha'is understand martyrdom.

my questions rise from a conversation i had with a Baha'i friend a couple weeks ago. we were talking about Islamic military systems, and he cracked the "joke" that "man, if i was in one of those [islamic armies] and they found i was Baha'i i would so be martyred!"

he then related the story of an early segment of Baha'i history wherein a hold-out of Babis were surrounded my armed Muslims- one by one the Babi men all went up and gave the call to prayer, which deeply angered the gunmen, causing them to shoot down every man who stood up to give the call- apparently every man in line did the same, until all of them had been killed.

this disturbed me a little. is martyrdom in the Baha'i faith something that is upheld or honred? why is this? what distinctions are made in Baha'i sciptures between martyrdom and suicide?

[arthra]

Originally Posted by gracie

hey- i'd like to ask some questions about the Baha'i Faith and how Baha'is understand martyrdom.

my questions rise from a conversation i had with a Baha'i friend a couple weeks ago. we were talking about Islamic military systems, and he cracked the "joke" that "man, if i was in one of those [islamic armies] and they found i was Baha'i i would so be martyred!"

he then related the story of an early segment of Baha'i history wherein a hold-out of Babis were surrounded my armed Muslims- one by one the Babi men all went up and gave the call to prayer, which deeply angered the gunmen, causing them to shoot down every man who stood up to give the call- apparently every man in line did the same, until all of them had been killed.

this disturbed me a little. is martyrdom in the Baha'i faith something that is upheld or honred? why is this? what distinctions are made in Baha'i sciptures between martyrdom and suicide?

Hello Gracie!

Thanks for your question... By the way feel free to drop by the Baha'i section of RF as it may serve to familiarize you with the Faith.

Our history began around 1844 when the Bab declared His Mission in Shiraz, Persia (now Iran). It has been reported that twenty thousand followers of the Bab died as marytrs for His Cause in the first years of our Faith. The closest historical parallel I know to this are the martyrdoms of the early Christians.

The Babis and later Baha'is died because they would not deny their new Faith. Baha'is accept the Bab and Baha'u'llah as Messengers of God and Prophets that came after Prophet Muhammad and as most of the early Babis and later Baha'is had been Muslims before they declared their acceptance of the Bab and Baha'u'llah they were viewed as Apostates and therefore could be executed under the statutes of religious law followed by Shiah Islam.

So martyrdom for us is like in the case of the early Christians who were persecuted for their faith and executed.

Please don't confuse this martyrdom with the reported "martyrdoms" of suicide bombers who take many innocent lives with them.

Suicide is forbidden for Baha'is.

- Art

[ayani]

Originally Posted by arthra

Please don't confuse this martyrdom with the reported "martyrdoms" of suicide bombers who take many innocent lives with them.

Suicide is forbidden for Baha'is.

of course not. there is nothing noble about killing innocents to make a political point.

just wondering, do you happen to have more information on the event my friend described? does it sound at all familiar?

now, what if a Baha'i individual dies through agreeing to be martyred rather than publically renounce his faith or hide his faith? or in the example of the story, put himself or herself in front of enemies? would that be martyrdom as well?

thank you, and i hope these questions are ok.

[arthra]

Originally Posted by gracie

of course not. there is nothing noble about killing innocents to make a political point.

just wondering, do you happen to have more information on the event my friend described? does it sound at all familiar?

now, what if a Baha'i individual dies through agreeing to be martyred rather than publically renounce his faith or hide his faith? or in the example of the story, put himself or herself in front of enemies? would that be martyrdom as well?

thank you, and i hope these questions are ok.

Hello again Gracie..

Babi-Baha'i history is a fascinating subject and I would have to have more information about the reported incident told by your friend to reply adequately to it.

There were cases though where Babis sought shelter from persecution and defended themselves and at that time gave a call to prayer and were shot at and some I'm sure died. These were not trained soldiers but were mostly religious students calling the faithful to prayer..so if they were slain while performing this duty it would be a martyrdom I think in most peoples mind.

The martyrdoms were also most often faithful people who were accused of being Babis and later Baha'is and dragged from their homes by mobs that were permitted to roam about by the civil authorities of the time and cruelly butchered in front of their children...sometimes whole families were slaughtered.

Baha'u'llah later abrogated even using arms to defend your religion so use of force for the purpose of defending religion has been forbidden.

Baha'is cannot dissimulate their faith... If we are asked our religion we are required to identify ourselves and would not "hide" our faith.

I personally know from reports from Bahais who were in Iraq then under the Saddam regime and the army would take a Baha'i and have them walk ahead of the military across a field so as to set off mines.. so this would be a martyrdom of a Baha'i.

In Iran Baha'i Faith is outlawed today and there are Baha'is who have been imprisoned and executed for simply being Baha'i...so they would be martyred.

- Art

[arthra]

For those interested:

Here is a chronological list of maryrdoms from the Baha'i Academic Research Library site:

http://bahai-library.com/?file=winte...i_persecutions

[ayani]

Originally Posted by arthra

I personally know from reports from Bahais who were in Iraq then under the Saddam regime and the army would take a Baha'i and have them walk ahead of the military across a field so as to set off mines.. so this would be a martyrdom of a Baha'i.

In Iran Baha'i Faith is outlawed today and there are Baha'is who have been imprisoned and executed for simply being Baha'i...so they would be martyred.

- Art

good lord! yes, i've heard of the terrible things that happen in Iran. and which still happen. thank you for helping me understand this better, Art.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by arthra

So martyrdom for us is like in the case of the early Christians who were persecuted for their faith and executed.

Please don't confuse this martyrdom with the reported "martyrdoms" of suicide bombers who take many innocent lives with them.

Suicide is forbidden for Baha'is.

It's also good to point out that we are not to seek out martyrdom.

[arthra]

"Self-sacrifice means to subordinate this lower nature and its desires to the more godly and noble side of our selves. Ultimately, in its highest sense, self-sacrifice means to give our will and our all to God to do with as He pleases. Then He purifies and glorifies our true self until it becomes a shining and wonderful reality."

(From a letter dated 10 December 1947 written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer)