What's the difference between Orthodox Bahais and regular Bahais? (LDS, faith)

[Bishka]

Or is there a difference?

[arthra]

Well in our history Becky some Baha'is tried to garner power for themselves. One of these was a Mason Remey who had been a trust Hand of the Cause nominated by Shoghi Effendi the Guardian... Mason had many years of service to the Cause in the early twentieth century. But with the Guardians death in 1957, Mason tried to announce that he himself was the Guardians successor and new "guardian" even though he had acknowledged in writing earlier that the Guardian had left no successor. Mason also opposed the election of the Universal House of Justice in 1963 even though that Institution was provided for in the Will of Abdul-Baha some fifty years earlier.

So anyway Mason did have a small following that called themselves the "Orthodox Baha'is" and after nominating two other people to succeed him as "guardian" he died in Florence, Italy. Some of Mason's group continues but has not succeeded in dividing the Baha'is in genral or causing a serious schism in it's ranks. The "orthodox" later themselves splintered off into schismatic groups.

- Art

[Bishka]

What are guardians?

[arthra]

Originally Posted by beckysoup61

What are guardians?

The Guardianship was established by Abdul-Baha in His Will and Testament and He nominated His grandson Shoghi Effendi to be the Guardian ... He also established in His Will how the Universal House of Justice and the Guardianship were to relate as Institutions.

Shoghi Effendi's interpretations and writings are still respected by the Universal House of Justice even after his passing in 1957 so the Institution of the Guardianship has continued.

These Institutions have protected the Faith and preserved it's unity.

- Art

[Booko]

Originally Posted by beckysoup61

Or is there a difference?

Think of it like the difference between LDS and Warren Jeffs.

The story of Mason Remy is strange. One of the qualifications for being a Guardian is that you have to be a lineal descendent of Baha'u'llah. It's there in print, and you really can't miss it. The First (and last) Guardian, Shoghi Effendi Rabbani, was such a descendent (and a descendent of the Bab as well).

Mason Remy had about as much Persian ancestry as I do.

How can he be a lineal descendent of a Persian? It was a truly bizarre thing. He had some devotees around him who broke away. There might have been maybe a hundred or so in all? I don't know specifics. There are still a few families spread thin here and there. I ran across a website in Alaska, I know there are a few in PA, but when you look at a handful of people vs. milliions, the handful hardly constitutes a "sect."

We call people who do this Covenant Breakers, and we basically have nothing to do with them. There's really not much point in arguing with them -- we have other things we need to be doing. We know in time they'll die off anyway. That's been so in our history so far, and isn't likely to change.

The history of Covenant Breaking in the Baha'i Faith is interesting. I don't know what LDS history is like, but it's a pretty common thing in religious history to have some challenges to authority whenever leadership changes, and while no one's been successful in sectarian divisions in our faith, that doesn't mean no one's *tried*. People are still people, and egos can get in the way.

I ran across the "Orthodox Baha'i" site once years ago. At that time they spent all their site real estate going on about the "Guardian" in ways that probably only a Baha'i would understand anyway, and kinda forgot to say anything about the Message Baha'u'llah came to give, which is...the point? Weird.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by beckysoup61

What are guardians?

Sort of an Executive Branch of the Faith. There was only the one, Shoghi Effendi. He died, leaving no will. And to be appointed Guardian, the person before you has to leave it in their will. So...no more Guardians. The Universal House of Justice now performs that function of the faith.

Is this kind of what your President does? (Not to get too far off track.)

[Booko]

Originally Posted by arthra

The "orthodox" later themselves splintered off into schismatic groups.

Thanks, Art. I didn't realize this...very interesting.

[Bishka]

Wow. It's all very confusing, but I'm starting to understand.

Thanks for the comparison - it did help.

[arthra]

Anything you wanna know Becky... we'll try to respond! By the way... I was going to complement you on your change of avatar a few days ago but you went and changed back to the giraffe... that's OK but I just thought I'd tell you...

- Art