Religions Not From God (Jesus, Moses, Earth, Torah, hell)

[Booko]

Originally Posted by FerventGodSeeker

While I can respect the Bahai attitude to focus on similarities and not differences, I also think that walks a fine line of avoiding hard truths. Some things that people believe are just wrong, and everyone can't be right about everything. Some religious viewpoints are just mutually exclusive and that's all there is to it. That's why I was interested to see which religions that Bahai (or at least individual Bahai followers) considered false.

Not necessarily. We recognize that there are hard truths and don't deny that. It's just that not everything that is true should be said, most particularly if it's going to cause division and strife.

One of our "commandments" is to think for ourselves, and not look through the eyes of another. Just because I don't voice strong opinions on some matters should not fool you into thinking I don't have them.

One of the implications of thinking for myself is that I must accept the idea that others should think for themselves also. If what I believe on some matter is true, I can state my beliefs, but people must come to their own beliefs in their own time. Why should I not extend to others the same courtesy I would like to be shown?

Think of the instruction given to preach the Gospel and if it's not accepted, just move on to the next town. Being raised a Christian, I think in these terms. If a town or a person is not receptive at some time, would the message not be better served by spending energy somewhere where it can be received? To stay in the unreceptive place and keep pushing does more harm than good.

Also, the importance of humility works into this. How often has it happened that someone decided his understanding of a religious text was "what God said" and it caused all sorts of problems, even warfare? Does either of us seriously think God wants to see us go around killing each other over our fallible and feeble understandings of the nature of an Infinite God?

[FerventGodSeeker]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Booko

One of the implications of thinking for myself is that I must accept the idea that others should think for themselves also. If what I believe on some matter is true, I can state my beliefs, but people must come to their own beliefs in their own time. Why should I not extend to others the same courtesy I would like to be shown?

I agree that people must come to conclusions on their own (or more specifically, with the insight granted them by God, not from human sources). However, there's nothing wrong with sharing your own opinions and why you believe, even if they disagree with others' opinions. But I think you and I agree on that, anyways.

Think of the instruction given to preach the Gospel and if it's not accepted, just move on to the next town. Being raised a Christian, I think in these terms. If a town or a person is not receptive at some time, would the message not be better served by spending energy somewhere where it can be received? To stay in the unreceptive place and keep pushing does more harm than good.

Absolutely, it is pointless to cast pearls before swine. However, all I asked for was a one-time ( or one thread) discussion of what religions are false in the Bahai view. I don't expect or demand that you would shove those beliefs in everyone's faces, of course.

Also, the importance of humility works into this. How often has it happened that someone decided his understanding of a religious text was "what God said" and it caused all sorts of problems, even warfare? Does either of us seriously think God wants to see us go around killing each other over our fallible and feeble understandings of the nature of an Infinite God?

I have faith that my Church's teachings and interpretations are true, and thus I can unashamedly declare them. I don't think stating "this or that is false" is equivalent to killing though.

FerventGodSeeker

[mr.guy]

Originally Posted by fervy

Absolutely, it is pointless to cast pearls before swine.

Oink, oink.

[FerventGodSeeker]

Originally Posted by mr.guy

Oink, oink.

LOL....awww, don't be so hard on yourself . God loves you!

FerventGodSeeker

[Booko]

Originally Posted by FerventGodSeeker

I agree that people must come to conclusions on their own (or more specifically, with the insight granted them by God, not from human sources). However, there's nothing wrong with sharing your own opinions and why you believe, even if they disagree with others' opinions. But I think you and I agree on that, anyways.

Oh yes, absolutely.

Absolutely, it is pointless to cast pearls before swine. However, all I asked for was a one-time ( or one thread) discussion of what religions are false in the Bahai view. I don't expect or demand that you would shove those beliefs in everyone's faces, of course.

That's why I answered with a few examples that I think wouldn't be exactly controversial.

I have faith that my Church's teachings and interpretations are true, and thus I can unashamedly declare them. I don't think stating "this or that is false" is equivalent to killing though.

No, I don't think it's equivalent. And I wouldn't expect you to be ashamed of what you believe anyway -- why shouldn't you proclaim it? But you've seen enough around here, most likely, that shows what comes of saying what you believe in a way that's more like a thump on the head than trying to communicate.

And as I alluded to, history is full of examples of what awful things happen when too many people hold onto their opinions and little humility. It's not good for people, and not good for religion either.

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by FerventGodSeeker

While I can respect the Bahai attitude to focus on similarities and not differences, I also think that walks a fine line of avoiding hard truths. Some things that people believe are just wrong, and everyone can't be right about everything. Some religious viewpoints are just mutually exclusive and that's all there is to it. That's why I was interested to see which religions that Bahai (or at least individual Bahai followers) considered false.

FerventGodSeeker

If you are asking for what I feel might be a 'false' religion, I can tell you. If you are asking what the Baha`i Faith feels to be a false religion, you'd have to address the question to the Universal House of Justice.

The real dichotomy is not 'true' and 'false', it is God's religion vs. man-made religion.

Can I say that the LDS church is man-made religion ? I would not even venture the thought. The LDS church follows Jesus Christ and Christianity is definitely from God.

From my own personal basis of decision, I would say Scientology is a man-made religion. But that is MY ESTIMATION not the estimation of the faith.

Baha`i's don't ever get off easy, we are responsible to discover the truth for ourselves, and rely on no one else's judgement. So MY judgement bears no real resemblance to what you might interpret.

Regards,
Scott

[TashaN]

Originally Posted by Booko

While we're definitely monotheistic (as much as Jews or Muslims are even), there's a recognition that 1) just because a religion's practice is polytheistic doesn't mean it's polytheistic at the core (Hinduism would be one example of that, and 2) in ancient times, perhaps it was more understandable for people to worship "gods" in the sense that they were really attributes of a greater thing.

With all respect, your opnion here is somthing similar too:

1) Just because you kill people so that doesn't mean you are a killer.
2) It's ok if They worship any object if their intention was to worship God (i.e., tree, idols, sticks).

Would we like it if everyone were monotheistic as we are? Sure. If they're not, does it mean they're following a "false" religion. Nope.

We can't make everyone happy. We must say the truth whatever it's how hard it was for them to accept it.


Peace ..

[Booko]

Originally Posted by Booko

While we're definitely monotheistic (as much as Jews or Muslims are even), there's a recognition that 1) just because a religion's practice is polytheistic doesn't mean it's polytheistic at the core (Hinduism would be one example of that, and 2) in ancient times, perhaps it was more understandable for people to worship "gods" in the sense that they were really attributes of a greater thing.

With all respect, your opnion here is somthing similar too:

1) Just because you kill people so that doesn't mean you are a killer.
2) It's ok if They worship any object if their intention was to worship God (i.e., tree, idols, sticks).

We can't make everyone happy. We must say the truth whatever it's how hard it was for them to accept it.

Peace ..

How about saying the truth in a way they can hear? Or do you find people listen more when you insult them? I haven't found that to be so.

"Be generous in prosperity, and thankful in adversity. Be worthy of the trust of thy neighbor, and look upon him with a bright and friendly face. Be a treasure to the poor, an admonisher to the rich, an answerer to the cry of the needy, a preserver of the sanctity of thy pledge. Be fair in thy judgment, and guarded in thy speech. Be unjust to no man, and show all meekness to all men. Be as a lamp unto them that walk in darkness, a joy to the sorrowful, a sea for the thirsty, a haven for the distressed, an upholder and defender of the victim of oppression. Let integrity and uprightness distinguish all thine acts. Be a home for the stranger, a balm to the suffering, a tower of strength for the fugitive. Be eyes to the blind, and a guiding light unto the feet of the erring. Be an ornament to the countenance of truth, a crown to the brow of fidelity, a pillar of the temple of righteousness, a breath of life to the body of mankind, an ensign of the hosts of justice, a luminary above the horizon of virtue, a dew to the soil of the human heart, an ark on the ocean of knowledge, a sun in the heaven of bounty, a gem on the diadem of wisdom, a shining light in the firmament of thy generation, a fruit upon the tree of humility. We pray God to protect thee from the heat of jealousy and the cold of hatred. He verily is nigh, ready to answer."

(Baha'u'llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 93)

[TashaN]

Originally Posted by Booko

How about saying the truth in a way they can hear? Or do you find people listen more when you insult them? I haven't found that to be so.

You said before: just because a religion's practice is polytheistic doesn't mean it's polytheistic at the core (Hinduism would be one example of that.

Do you mean that i insult a Hindu for instance when i believe according to islam that his faith is wrong and only Islam is the right one?

Is this insulting?

You want me to say everybody will go to paradise and worship whatever you want the way suit you?

[Booko]

Originally Posted by The Truth

You said before: just because a religion's practice is polytheistic doesn't mean it's polytheistic at the core (Hinduism would be one example of that.

Do you mean that i insult a Hindu for instance when i believe according to islam that his faith is wrong and only Islam is the right one?

Is this insulting?

You want me to say everybody will go to paradise and worship whatever you want the way suit you?

No, you can say what you like.

I merely wished to observe that just because something is true doesn't mean the time or place is right to say it.

If you'd like an example, you can go read some of the stuff certain Christians have to say about Islam, and then consider whether you feel like you'd like to have further conversation with them or just put them on your ignore list.

And then there's another point...sometimes it's not so much what you say as how you say it.