Baha'i and UU! (Jesus, ritual, Moses, Buddhism, beliefs)

[TashaN]

Long time since the last time i was here ...

I came with some questions which i hope you won't mind discussing it with me ..

You have alot of things in common with UU belief because they believe in all kind of religions, i guess.

I always see Baha'i faith members agree with all ..

They agree with Juadism, Christianity, Islam and i don't know if there is more.

Do they agree with it in details or as a pervious revelation only.

One more question ...

Do you believe that Quran is the valid words of God for all times or only in the past while prophet Mohammed was alive?

I used to see most if not all my friends in baha'i faith talk about Quran as it's somthing for that time but not for today and they believe as far as i can see that it was Mohammed's words but not the pure word of God.

Is there any difference between Quran and the bible in your opnion?

I know i know, alot of questions but sorry, i couldn't help it


Peace ..

[Green Gaia]

Well your title brought me in.... but I can't really answer any of your questions. I'm sure Bruce and our Baha'i members will be glad to though.

[TashaN]

Thanks dear Maize,

I guess once they answer, you will be able to discuss with us the similarties you have with Baha'i faith ..

[BruceDLimber]

Hi, Truth!

I'll have a go at your questions! . . .

(And thanks, Maize, for the vote of confidence. I hope I measure up to it!)

Originally Posted by The Truth

You have alot of things in common with UU belief because they believe in all kind of religions, i guess.

True. We Baha'is don't believe in all religions, but we do agree that all the major ones are legitimate and of God! (Our scriptures do say there are a few that are the outcome of human perversion. Jim Jone's group and satanism would be good examples.)

[quote=The Truth]They agree with Juadism, Christianity, Islam and i don't know if there is more.

Very much so. The other great religions we recognize are Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, and Buddhism (plus of course the Babi Faith, which immediately preceded us). There were other true religions in the past, but they're now extinct.

(For the record, other groups such as Shinto and Confucianism we see as secular philosophies rather than religions, and groups such as Sikhism we see as man-made alterations/combinations of existing religions.

Originally Posted by The Truth

Do they agree with it in details or as a pervious revelation only?

We don't worry so much about all the details of every religion because as we understand it, man-made alterations and corruptions tend to accumulate in a given religion over time--which is one of the reasons why God periodically renews religion with a new Divine Messenger.

But in general, each religion has a particular Age for which it is suited, after which God renews religion and sends an updated Revelation with new social laws, etc..

And IOV the Baha'i Faith is the latest such Divine Revelation, though not the last (there will never be a last!). In due time, it, too, will be superseded.

Originally Posted by The Truth

One more question.?

You expect me to believe that?! :-S

Originally Posted by The Truth

Do you believe that Quran is the valid words of God for all times or only in the past while prophet Mohammed was alive?

The spiritual teachings of all the great religions are eternal and in agreement (though sometimes expressed differently or amplified).

But the social teachings of each religion are for that particular Age, and can be superceded by later religions and the Revelations they bring.

So IOV the social laws of Islam, like those of the older religions, have been superceded; and the current teachings are those found in the 200 volumes of the Baha'i scriptures!

And yes, we see the Qur'an as God-sent Divine Revelation, just like the Bible.

Originally Posted by The Truth

Is there any difference between Quran and the bible in your opnion?

Please see above. Different social teachings for different ages, both now passed.

And please don't worry about the number of questions. They're most welcome, and we LOVE 'em! :-) So feel free to ask us all you like, and we'll do our best to answer them!

Best,

Bruce

[TashaN]

Originally Posted by BruceDLimber

And please don't worry about the number of questions. They're most welcome, and we LOVE 'em! :-) So feel free to ask us all you like, and we'll do our best to answer them!

You asked for it ...

We don't worry so much about all the details of every religion because as we understand it, man-made alterations and corruptions tend to accumulate in a given religion over time--which is one of the reasons why God periodically renews religion with a new Divine Messenger.

Do you believe in Baha'i faith that Juadism, Christianity and Islam have been altered and corrupted? I guess this what you believe in for why God renewed them by a new revelation as you mentioned (i.e. Baha'i faith).

The spiritual teachings of all the great religions are eternal and in agreement (though sometimes expressed differently or amplified).

What if Juadism, Christianity and Islam have a huge conflict in the sipritual teaching, and in a case where only one of them must be right, which one would you pick as the right one? the latest one or the one you think it's more reasonable among them?

But the social teachings of each religion are for that particular Age, and can be superceded by later religions and the Revelations they bring.

Isn't it a sort of secularism when you put the spiritual teaching aside from the social (everyday life) teaching?

In islam, our religion is the system of life, including the spiritual and the social system.

So IOV the social laws of Islam, like those of the older religions, have been superceded; and the current teachings are those found in the 200 volumes of the Baha'i scriptures!

What is IOV anyway? is it a shortcut for somthing?

What if the spiritual teaching in islam conflict with the one in Baha'i faith?

And yes, we see the Qur'an as God-sent Divine Revelation, just like the Bible.

Do you say the word of Mohammed or for instance, Mohammed said when you mention Quran or you say God said in the Quran, etc.?

Thanks again ..

[Booko]

Originally Posted by The Truth

Do you believe in Baha'i faith that Juadism, Christianity and Islam have been altered and corrupted? I guess this what you believe in for why God renewed them by a new revelation as you mentioned (i.e. Baha'i faith).

Hi Truth:

Hope you don't mind if I pop in here.

To answer your question, probably not in the way some Muslims do. Though I think you'd have to ignore history of religions to think that people don't add their own stuff over time. But there's a further thing: humanity progresses as a result of each Revelation. Eventually we get to the point, as civilization goes, where we're ready for the next lesson, as it were. Even if there were zero man-made additions to religions, we would still need Prophets.

What if Juadism, Christianity and Islam have a huge conflict in the sipritual teaching, and in a case where only one of them must be right, which one would you pick as the right one? the latest one or the one you think it's more reasonable among them?

If there's a conflict in spiritual teaching, it has more to do with our human perceptions of what the Prophets meant than with what they actually said.

For myself, obviously I pick the most recent one. Not because I would think the teaching is "more right" but more like the explanation is more understandable to our times.

Isn't it a sort of secularism when you put the spiritual teaching aside from the social (everyday life) teaching?

In islam, our religion is the system of life, including the spiritual and the social system.

As it should be. It's the same for us. All the difference between social and spiritual teachings mean is that some teachings will change over time (like dietary and divorce laws) and some will not (like love thy neighbor, worship only God, etc.).

But *we* don't get to change the social teachings. Only the Prophets do that. We may get to choose which Prophet we follow, but after that, we don't get to decide what's convenient to follow and ignore the rest.

What is IOV anyway? is it a shortcut for somthing?

In Our View

What if the spiritual teaching in islam conflict with the one in Baha'i faith?

They don't? If you see where they are, that could be very interesting to discuss.

Do you say the word of Mohammed or for instance, Mohammed said when you mention Quran or you say God said in the Quran, etc.?

It probably depends on the how the person writes, if I understand your question correctly. Technically speaking, what's in the Qu'ran was said by Muhammad (pbuh) because God sent the Message through him. You could call the Qu'ran the Word of God, as the Christians call their book, and it would be accurate.

I hope this helps answer some of your questions. I look forward to talking to you further.

[Karl R]

UU beliefs lack uniformity. However, I'll try to accurately portray what a general UU opinion would be.

Originally Posted by BruceDLimber

We Baha'is don't believe in all religions, but we do agree that all the major ones are legitimate and of God! (Our scriptures do say there are a few that are the outcome of human perversion. Jim Jone's group and satanism would be good examples.)

UUs will accept a person's choice of beliefs (religion, secular philosophy, atheism) provided those beliefs lead a person to promote charity and social justice. A UU might disagree with those beliefs, but would encourage opportunities to discuss those differences in a civil manner.

Originally Posted by The Truth

Do you believe in Baha'i faith that Juadism, Christianity and Islam have been altered and corrupted?

Based on my casual examination of religions, I would say that almost all religions go through periods of corruption. A few examples:

In the time of Jesus, judaism had instituted a system of moneychanging and sale of sacrificial animals that was designed to enrich a few temple leaders.

The christian church promoted the crusades and the inquisition.

Radical muslim fundamentalists are encouraging terrorism.

Similar examples can be found in other religions. Eventually the religions manage to move past the corruption, but it's a continuous process.

Originally Posted by The Truth

What if Juadism, Christianity and Islam have a huge conflict in the sipritual teaching, and in a case where only one of them must be right, which one would you pick as the right one?

I would start with the assumption that all three religions were mistaken, then try to reason out the truth from there. UUs in general would most likely split at least five ways on the issue.

Originally Posted by The Truth

Do you say the word of Mohammed or for instance, Mohammed said when you mention Quran or you say God said in the Quran, etc.?

In a UU church it would usually be stated as "Muhammad taught ..." but individuals might say "god taught ..." or "allah taught ..." instead (for the same reasons Booko stated).

In the UU church I attend, Rumi (the Sufi poet) gets quoted a lot more often than Muhammad (or Jesus, or Moses).

Originally Posted by Booko

some teachings will change over time (like dietary and divorce laws) and some will not (like love thy neighbor, worship only God, etc.)

Almost every UU would place high importance on teachings like "love your neighbor". Some would place high importance on teachings like "love god", depending on their beliefs and background. Very few would place any importance on dietary or divorce laws. They might agree with those laws, but would support those beliefs with modern, secular arguements.