Gay and Atheist? (Jesus, priests, moral, rejecting, Creator)

[Shell-Shocked]

What is the natural nest step to disliking something like god than to stop believing? If god is supposed to be all love and forgiveness, and yet the people who told you this said he hates you, why would you continue to believe them? And slowly, the doubt would spread to "if they lied about what god does, why not lie about what god is?"

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Shell-Shocked

What is the natural nest step to disliking something like god than to stop believing? If god is supposed to be all love and forgiveness, and yet the people who told you this said he hates you, why would you continue to believe them?

Of course I wouldn't. If anybody told me that God hates me, I'd think, "Well, that's stupid. How do they know how God feels about me? God doesn't hate me; He loves me. These people don't know what they're talking about, and I don't want to have anything to do with people like that any more."

And slowly, the doubt would spread to "if they lied about what god does, why not lie about what god is?"

If your understanding of what God does and what God is is based upon what someone else tells you, then your statement makes sense. My understanding of what God does and what God is is between me and God, not between me and a bunch of people who are in no better position to know than I am. Besides, we're not even really talking about what God does or what He is. We're talking about IF He is.

[Nanda]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Nanda, I'm wondering what led to you go from believing in God to questioning His existance to being convinced that He doesn't exist. If you don't mind, I'm really interested in how that happened.

I'm sorry, Katzpur, I'd meant to respond to you awhile ago, but I kept getting sidetracked. There's not much to tell; like most, I didn't arrive at atheism by way of any major life event, but a long, slow process of doubt, questioning, and study. As I grew older, learned more, experienced more, I became increasingly convinced that none of the world's religions had gotten it right; they all seemed more like mythologies than truth. For many, many years I was an agnostic/apatheist, because I couldn't tell you if I believed there was a god or not, and I didn't really care; it didn't affect my day to day life. It seemed to me that if there was a god, it wasn't the sort of god that spent its time punishing or helping people, either, so it didn't really matter if a god existed or not. I'm sure you can see how it isn't a very big leap from "it doesn't matter if god exists" to "god probably doesn't exist." All it took was a renewed interest in religion; not difficult considering the affect religion is having on the world in more recent years - it could no longer be ignored. In fact, my current view still incorporates the old one, in a sense. I don't believe that any god exists, and if one does, it probably isn't the personal god that religions teach, so it doesn't really matter. So, yeah, pretty dull, actually.

[Scuba Pete]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

I have noticed that there seem to be more homosexuals who profess to be atheists than there are homosexuals who profess to be theists.

A number of prominent theists have gone out of their way to make homosexuals feel unwanted in a theistic environment. This is man drawing lines in the sand that God never intended to be drawn.

[Francine]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

A number of prominent theists have gone out of their way to make homosexuals feel unwanted in a theistic environment. This is man drawing lines in the sand that God never intended to be drawn.

That's okay, if my family, Church, and society doesn't want me around because of the gender of my Significant Other, who I do not offer, then my family, Church, and society doesn't receive the other things I do have to offer.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Nanda

I'm sure you can see how it isn't a very big leap from "it doesn't matter if god exists" to "god probably doesn't exist."

I see where you're coming from. And yes, I do see what you're saying. If you don't see God as being involved in the affairs of human beings, He might as well not exist. If He might as well not exist, then "probably doesn't" is the next logical step. I guess it's the fact that I see Him as involved and that you don't that is real point at which our paths split.

[Nanda]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

I guess it's the fact that I see Him as involved and that you don't that is real point at which our paths split.

I would agree with that assessment.

[Shell-Shocked]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Besides, we're not even really talking about what God does or what He is. We're talking about IF He is.

I dunno, the next step on the road of doubt (to me) is "If he's not what they say he is, maybe he's nothing at all." And since no one can provide any proof except "your faith will show you the truth", but that faith is slipping... Maybe it's a more clear progression in my head than I'm explaining.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Shell-Shocked

I dunno, the next step on the road of doubt (to me) is "If he's not what they say he is, maybe he's nothing at all." And since no one can provide any proof except "your faith will show you the truth", but that faith is slipping... Maybe it's a more clear progression in my head than I'm explaining.

Well, I'd be the first to admit that it's not always easy to explain things of such a personal nature. Your experiences are uniquely yours and if you say that this is how you came to the conclusion that God doesn't exist, I certainly don't have any reason to doubt you. You haven't mentioned whether you are gay or not (and if you don't want to, that's okay with me), but it sounds like you're denying God's existence because of what other people say about Him. I guess I just can't get my mind around why someone would do that.

[Tristesse]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Okay, this is not a debate. Got that? I don't care what you believe or don't believe. I don't care who you want to sleep with. I've just made an observation and would like to get your comments.

I have noticed that there seem to be more homosexuals who profess to be atheists than there are homosexuals who profess to be theists. If this is the case, do you see a cause and effect thing at work here? It strikes me that people "decide" not to believe in God when the religion they may have been raised with (I'm thinking primarily Christianity) tells them that their affection for a loved-one of the same sex is sinful. Some seem to be able to continue to believe in God, even if they no longer consider themselves to be religious, but it seems to me that most address the conflict by deciding not to believe in God at all. If you are gay or lesbian and are also an atheist, did what you may have been told about your sexual preference in church influence your decision not to believe in God? Or was the "decision" no more of a decision than your sexual orientation?

I think the problem is, a lot of devout religious people don't believe homosexuality even exists. So, some of them are homosexual, but when they participate in that kind of activity, they call it sinning. And instead of admitting that they are homosexual, they just say, "I was prey to the devils juice" or something completely absurd. If they admit homosexuals exist, they feel like their admitting that there god creates homosexuals. It's the most asinine reasoning. So, I think thats why you see more out of the closet homosexuals, the religious ones are just in the closet.