Gay and Atheist? (beliefs, followers, homosexuals, choice, church)

[Francine]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Well, you may be right, but I can't remember ever having chosen to believe in God any more than I can remember having chosen my sexual orientation (which is heterosexual, in case you hadn't figured that out).

Hypothetical question. If you caught yourself daydreaming over the girls a lot when you were eleven and ignoring all the boys, and this funny thing never changed when you grew up, would you still be in the CoJCoLDS?

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Francine

Hypothetical question. If you caught yourself daydreaming over the girls a lot when you were eleven and ignoring all the boys, and this funny thing never changed when you grew up, would you still be in the CoJCoLDS?

I honestly don't know. Probably not. I would probably not consider myself a Christian at all anymore. I know I would still believe in God. As I've already said, there is nothing that could change that, but my understanding of Him would probably be pretty different than it is now.

[Francine]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

I honestly don't know. Probably not. I would probably not consider myself a Christian at all anymore. I know I would still believe in God. As I've already said, there is nothing that could change that, but my understanding of Him would probably be pretty different than it is now.

Okay, gays and lesbians know we do not choose to be this way, as surely as heteros did not choose to be the way they are, or lefthanders choose to be that way. It's just a brain wiring issue. But in order to maintain that homosexuality is a personal sin, and lay it to the account of the sinner, the party line of many religions is that it is purely a choice. They say gays and lesbians willfully choose to date members of the same gender despite every signal of discouragement from their family, church, and society at large. The denominations that persist in doing so drive away gays and lesbians, and the denominations that embrace people for who they are such as the Episcopal Church or Unitarian Universalism attract them. If they believe the denomination is true as far as teaching the essential plan of salvation, they might remain in the assembly under cover, but they must struggle with this because they feel like they don't truly belong there. And the remainder simply discard belief altogether. It may be the case that God allows homosexuality partly to test how his alleged followers treat them.

[kai]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

A lot of people are quite candid about their sexual orientation.

more than their atheism i think

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Francine

Okay, gays and lesbians know we do not choose to be this way, as surely as heteros did not choose to be the way they are, or lefthanders choose to be that way. It's just a brain wiring issue.

I agree.

But in order to maintain that homosexuality is a personal sin, and lay it to the account of the sinner, the party line of many religions is that it is purely a choice.

I'm sure that's the case. In my religion, neither homosexuality nor heterosexuality is, in and of itself, a sin.

It may be the case that God allows homosexuality partly to test how his alleged followers treat them.

You know, I've never considered that. I think you may very, very likely be right about that.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by kai

more than their atheism i think

Probably so.

[PureX]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

So it does sound like a cause and effect kind of thing. You (God) don't like my choice of sexual partners, so I'm not going to believe in you anymore. Is that right? I can understand why it could be difficult for someone to be homosexual, sexually active, and a devout Christian. That makes perfect sense to me. What I don't get is the relationship between sexual orientation and lack of belief in God.

It becomes a lot clearer when you realize that atheism as a position is a REACTION to theism. Atheism is not a proposition one arrives at of it's own accord. It's a proposition one arrives at in response to the proposal of deity. For example, one would not of their own accord arrive at the philosophical proposition that there are no giant space amebas living on Mars, because we don't base our ideas on a negative truth claim, or on non-existing conditions and evidence. One would only arrive at such a position in opposition to the proposal that giant space amebas do live on Mars.

So it makes sense that if one decides to reject religion based on it's false perceptions of homosexuality, they would also reject the religious proposal of a deity based on the likelihood of that being a false perception as well.

[ChristineES]

I haven't responded in this thread because I don't think I am qualified-- I am neither atheist nor gay. I haven't even decided if homosexuality is a choice or something people are born with yet. On things I am ignorant on, I usually just don't respond.

I am not even sure why I am posting this, I just felt a need to.

[robtex]

So Katz, you started this thread to discover an issue or explore an issue. So far, do you feel you are getting the information you were seeking? Do you have any homosexual friends in your hometown you interact with? I ask because my perception of how homosexuals are think or live is heavily impacted by the fact I have a dozen plus gay and lesbian friends who are comfortable talking about their sexual identity with me. I kinda want to know where you are coming from when you ask the questions you ask.