Gay and Atheist? (beliefs, followers, homosexuals, choice, church)

[MidnightBlue]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

So it does sound like a cause and effect kind of thing. You (God) don't like my choice of sexual partners, so I'm not going to believe in you anymore. Is that right? I can understand why it could be difficult for someone to be homosexual, sexually active, and a devout Christian. That makes perfect sense to me. What I don't get is the relationship between sexual orientation and lack of belief in God.

Molly Ivins said that all Southern liberals start with race: once you realize they're lying to you about race, you start to question everything. I think a similar process leads a lot of homosexuals to atheism: once you realize they're lying to you about sexuality, you start to question everything.

[doppelgänger]

I apologize, Kat. I came across too harsh. I know you've heard dozens of members of this forum explain that they do not choose to be attracted to members of the same sex, so I was taken aback by the casual way in which you seemed to suggest, despite what everyone tells you, that they choose their sexual orientation and then choose not to believe because they obstinately want to reject God.

I think the more likely scenario is that the treatment they typically receive from religious people makes them doubt the reality of the transformative power or "God" and the love that the Church is supposed to be representing in the Gospel. That leads to questions, which lead to more questions . . . Bigotry has a way of bursting the illusions of cognitive dissonance.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Fluffy

For me, sexuality is not something that should be discriminated against so even considering it to be a sin is unacceptable as far as I am concerned.

That makes sense. In thinking about the Christian LGBTs, they seem to have decided, "Well the Church is wrong. My lifestyle is not. People may discriminate against me, but since God doesn't, I'm going to stick with the Church and let God be my judge." I've got to say that that would be a hard decision, but I admire someone who has enough integrity and a close enough relationship with God to be able to do it.

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by MidnightBlue

Molly Ivins said that all Southern liberals start with race: once you realize they're lying to you about race, you start to question everything. I think a similar process leads a lot of homosexuals to atheism: once you realize they're lying to you about sexuality, you start to question everything.

What he said. This is precisely what I was trying to get at in my last post, but Bill says it better.

[Fluffy]

Originally Posted by Kathryn

That makes sense. In thinking about the Christian LGBTs, they seem to have decided, "Well the Church is wrong. My lifestyle is not. People may discriminate against me, but since God doesn't, I'm going to stick with the Church and let God be my judge." I've got to say that that would be a hard decision, but I admire someone who has enough integrity and a close enough relationship with God to be able to do it.

I think that would indeed be very difficult in an environment where others did not accept you. We have had posts on this forum before from people, both Christians and LGBT supporters, who charge LGBT Christians with hypocrisy. Luckily there are plenty of pro-gay churches in the UK and although they are definitely the minority, you will always be able to find somewhere to go and commune with others who will accept you for who you are.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

I apologize, Kat. I came across too harsh.

No problem.

I know you've heard dozens of members of this forum explain that they do not choose to be attracted to members of the same sex, so I was taken aback by the casual way in which you seemed to suggest, despite what everyone tells you, that they choose their sexual orientation and then choose not to believe because they obstinately want to reject God.

Actually, you misunderstood me -- completely. I have actually stated on many occasions that I do not believe same sex attraction to be a choice. What I was asking, in the context of the role that sexual orientation plays in one's beliefs, was "Is belief in God a choice?"

[MidnightBlue]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

And why do you think Catholic LGBTs remain in the Church? I would think that the Catholic view of homosexuality would be rather conservative, but maybe I just don't understand it correctly.

I don't understand it myself. I've had several friends who converted to Catholicism after they'd been out for years, and see no conflict at all between being Catholic and being a sexually active homosexual. I know of several Catholic parishes that have a lot of active gay members.

I'm more of a by-the-book kind of person. I knew I was gay when I converted to Orthodoxy, but at that time I wasn't sexually active and didn't intend to be. When I started having sex with men, I stopped receiving Holy Communion. Every now and then I would decide I loved the Church enough to be celibate, and then I'd be an active communicant again for a while, but it never lasted. Eventually, I realized I just couldn't keep doing that to myself, and that I was going to have to give up the idea of being Orthodox. There's still a lot about the Church that I love, and I envy (a little bit) the people who can be gay in an anti-gay Church and feel no pangs of conscience. But I'm just not one of those people.

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Very interesting. Do you believe you are fairly typical of LGBT atheists or would that be too subjective a question to try to answer?

I think my experience is probably not unusual, but I think it would be presumptuous to say it's typical.

[robtex]

Originally Posted by MidnightBlue

That's probably true on these forums, but I don't think it's true generally. Most of the LGBTs I know are theists

From my understanding with my friends in Austin I would echo the same that most gays I know have a belief in God. I think of the two dozen I know only one is an atheist. Many of them go to church in Austin and Austin even has a church with a lesbian minister. As a footnote to this paragraph, my gay atheist friend gets some serious grief from his gay friends for denying the existence of God at times.

Sometimes it is easy to get trapped in seeing the culture of forum as a reflection of society as a whole. To give a more glaring example, most Christians on this forum are well educated on their religion and have read the Bible but locally, here in Austin finding a Christian who actually knows about Christianity or have read the Bible is much more challenging.

I keep saying Austin because that is where I live. In Seattle it may be similar or it may be different. In the New England it may be similar and it may be different . I just have a small view of one area.

However it may be neat to see if we can find sociological studies, polls and the like that could get a broader demographic and polled enough people and mull over that.