Lack of faith equating lack of morality (morals, Earth, missionaries)

[Fra.Morelia]

Okay, the primary thing I see Athiests getting bludgeoned with is that without religion there would be no morals.
Firstly, I have noticed that even extremely devout people tend to lapse into a general defense of religion instead of their specific faith. It's as if they walked up to the door but won't take the last revealing step through.
Secondly, many athiests I know began their doubts with a disgust at all of the hypocrisy, violence, and hate oozing from religion.
Doesn't that tend to indicate a certain social consciousness that points away from amorality?

[Ceridwen018]

I definately think so. Personally for me, my morality is defined by what I think is right (what my parents brought me up with), as well as what is socially acceptable. Society pretty much rules this sort of thing, because if you break a social moral rule, you end up in jail or shunned from the community.

[Mr Spinkles]

Wow, to think more people have converted on this forum to atheism than to any of the actual religions...first Runt, then Fra. Morelia...and we don't even have missionaries!

The whole "If you don't believe in God, you can't be moral!" argument comes, frankly, from ignorance. I used to believe it was true, but that was when I had only met a couple of atheists in my life. The fact is, atheists can be loving, altruistic, generous, and caring just like people of all religions can be.

[Fra.Morelia]

Heh, not so much a conversion to Aethiesm as an acce[tance that that is what I was. Reading a lot of you all argue, I realized that I agreed. With that revalation, I realized that it was just a matter of being honest with myself.

[Mr Spinkles]

"Heh, not so much a conversion to Aethiesm as an acce[tance that that is what I was."

Good point. That's how I felt also....'conversion' was a bad word.

[standing_on_one_foot]

It's a strange argument, anyway. After all, not all religous people are moral, why on earth should all atheists be immoral? Some are, a lot aren't. Not all morality need come from fear of eternal consequences. It's almost more admirable when it doesn't, really.

[retrorich]

Originally Posted by standing_on_one_foot

It's a strange argument, anyway. After all, not all religous people are moral, why on earth should all atheists be immoral? Some are, a lot aren't. Not all morality need come from fear of eternal consequences. It's almost more admirable when it doesn't, really.

Very well said!

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by Fra.Morelia

Secondly, many athiests I know began their doubts with a disgust at all of the hypocrisy, violence, and hate oozing from religion.
Doesn't that tend to indicate a certain social consciousness that points away from amorality?

I agree: Many atheists and agnostics were once devout believers, but fell away from their religion upon discovering that its moral and intellectual standards (in practice) were lower than their own standards. I've been told that again and again by people who are now atheists or agnostics --- that they once were very religious, but that their religion didn't stand up to their own standards for honesty, morality, or truthfulness. Because of having heard that from so many people, I would not be surprised if a scientific study of atheists and agnostics found that they actually have a higher set of standards than most people!

[The Voice of Reason]

Originally Posted by standing_on_one_foot

It's a strange argument, anyway. After all, not all religous people are moral, why on earth should all atheists be immoral? Some are, a lot aren't. Not all morality need come from fear of eternal consequences. It's almost more admirable when it doesn't, really.

This was the subject of a thread about 3 or 4 months ago. Whether an Atheist doing a good deed was more "moral" than a Theist. To me, this is a strange thought.

Hey Sprinkles - great thought - maybe we (Atheists and Agnostics) need to get our own version of Billy Graham to speak to the masses . I know - we could play to the fears of the bottom 25% of the masses and get them to send us money!! After a couple of generations - it would be ingrained into them, and we could slowly expand into the middle of the bell curve (in intelligence). A few more generations, and the world will be ours!! MUHAHAHA MUHAHAHA

TVOR

[cardero]

I always associated faith with hope, for example, if someone placed faith in something, they were always hoping a belief to be TRUE. Some people cannot discern the difference. Another way that I liken faith to is like someone always telling you that "you just have to take my word for it" which of course is supposed to stop you from PROVING something to yourself. In all my experience with faith I just could not UNDERSTAND what exactly it was good for.