PETA: are you for them or against them?

[angellous_evangellous]

I hate PETA. HATE.

I'm a vegetarian but there's nothing I like better than wiping the blood off my plate with a biscuit after eating a medium rare ribeye. YUM.

[fenrisx]

Originally Posted by Seyorni

Where would PETA be sending the funds, fernsix? ALF isn't an organization. It's a movement. It has no address.

I refer to the elf, some folks are "dual" members, maybe you shouldnt be niave.

[ninerbuff]

Originally Posted by Wannabe Yogi

And this is what the USGS says about this

The estimates are that human activities generate 100-300 times the amount of carbon dioxide then is emitted by volcanoes.

Volcanic Gases and Their Effects

Show me the evidence that this is true. No where in the link did it say what you stated about estimates.

Twenty Nobel prizewinners said this

"Global climate change represents a threat of similar proportions [to that ] threat posed to civilization by the advent of thermonuclear weapons, and should be addressed in a similar manner. All scientists should be urged to contribute to raising levels of public knowledge on these threats to civilization and engage in a massive education effort.

"We know what needs to be done. We cannot wait until it is too late. We cannot wait until what we value most is lost."


Nobel laureates compare climate crisis to threat to civilisation from nuclear weapons | Environment | guardian.co.uk

That's great. But again where does any scientist say that the current trend of warming is the DIRECT effect from human CO2? There isn't any. Human CO2 may accelerate it, but no scientist will say that this is the absolute cause of the current warming trend.

I have a question for you.

If you had a gas leak in your home were your wife and kids lived. And you were told (by the greatest experts in the world) there was a ten percent chance that it would blow up and kill your family. Would you just sit back eat your meat industry 12 oz steak with eggs and tomatoes and gamble if it will kill your family? No most people would fix the problem even if it was a Financial hardship.

Even the skeptical Bush administration said there is a 60% chance that climate Change is do to human activities. Should we not change ?

Part of this change must be stop supporting the factory farming of animals.

First I would get the gas leak fixed which has nothing to do with eating meat (CO2 doesn't blow up, but natural gas will). Second you'd have to show me absolute proof that eating meat will kill my family, which if it were true, then thousands of families should be dead by now.
And did you not look at the graph of the core samples? How do you explain the CO2 rise and temperature rise of other eras that didn't have industry? Please elaborate on that.
You love and respect animals. I get it. But even with the knowledge of the best scientists in the world, the is NO WAY any of them can say that the current warming trend isn't part of cycle that has been going on for thousands and thousands of years.
If there weren't any cycles, then yes the evidence would be clear. But due to previous rise and falls of temperature without industry being present, the evidence isn't absolute.

[Wannabe Yogi]

I don't want to argue anymore with a fellow Giants fan. But let me explain myself.

Originally Posted by ninerbuff

First I would get the gas leak fixed which has nothing to do with eating meat

True but the analogy was about climate change. I must not of been very clear.

Originally Posted by ninerbuff

Second you'd have to show me absolute proof that eating meat will kill my family, which if it were true, then thousands of families should be dead by now.

The analogy was about climate change causing major disruptions. Like war over water sources and movement of people due to raising sea levels. This is already happened and will happened more. We need to change the way we live so we will not just be making the problems even worse.

Originally Posted by ninerbuff

And did you not look at the graph of the core samples? How do you explain the CO2 rise and temperature rise of other eras that didn't have industry?

Yes, I did look at them. Higher CO2 levels are being to be caused by humans today. In the past their have been different reasons for the Higher C02 levels. In the past there were many natural causes for this change in co2 today the change is being caused by humans.

IPCC scientists believe that there is a greater than
90 percent chance that most of the warming we have
experienced since the 1950s is due to the increase in
greenhouse gas emissions from human activities.
cycling of heat from the ocean to the atmosphere.

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/dow...ate_Basics.pdf

Do you believe that we should ignore all of the worlds top scientists when they say that Human civilization is at stake ? Like I have shown in past posts.

You would fix your gas leak because you love your family. Even though it would cause great economic hard ship. For only a 10% chance. All of the worlds top minds are now telling us there is a 90% chance of great problems for all of humanity. If you love your human family you would also support political and personal changes that would not just make things worse.

Originally Posted by ninerbuff

You love and respect animals. I get it. But even with the knowledge of the best scientists in the world, the is NO WAY any of them can say that the current warming trend isn't part of cycle that has been going on for thousands and thousands of years.

This is not about Animals. I have never asked anybody to stop eating meat.
I don't eat meat because of religious and moral reasons. I dont support Peta because I don't think I have the right to tell others not to eat meat.
I am just asking people to eat self-sustaining sources of meat. Hunt, raise rabbits in your back yard, or buy meat from good sources that don't destroy the environment. (I.E. Grass feed Beef)

Animals die it is only natural. Still we do not need to be so cruel to any living thing. The meat industry treats animals like they are not living beings and they don't feel pain. On top of that they are destroying the environment.

If all most of us can do is go from eating meat from 14 meals a week to 10 thats a good place to start.

I believe it is extremely naive to believe Humans are going to stop eating meat. This is why my beliefs differ from Peta.

[Wannabe Yogi]

Originally Posted by ninerbuff

Show me the evidence that this is true. No where in the link did it say what you stated about estimates.

Maybe i gave the wrong USGS site sorry I can't find it now. Here is one more

In other words, human CO2 emissions are over 100 times greater than volcanic emissions.

Two attempts to blame global warming on volcanoes

[Wannabe Yogi]

A few of the unethical and immoral things the meat industry have done to Animals:

-Genetically altering Turkeys so they have so much breast meat they can't walk in a straight line.
-Altering the genes of pigs so much that they are incapable of mating without artificial insemination.
-26 pounds of sea life is killed for every 1 pond of shrimp taken from the sea.
-The EPA said that 35,000 miles of river in America have been polluted by animal excrement.
-Chickens are de-beaked so they can live in an area the size of a standard piece of paper without hurting other birds.
-180 million chickens are improperly slaughter each year (-National Chicken Council)
Many are boiled alive in scalding tanks.
-Slaughter house workers have he highest injury rate of any job in America 27%
-No laws in America about how male egg laying chickens are deposed of. Some are just put in plastic bags others are put in grinders.
-Most States let the corperations define what is cruelty. So anything goes when it comes to killing Animals as long as it is a practice adopted by the industry.

[ninerbuff]

Originally Posted by Wannabe Yogi

I don't want to argue anymore with a fellow Giants fan. But let me explain myself.

We're not arguing, we're exchanging ideas.

True but the analogy was about climate change. I must not of been very clear.

It's cool. I know that was your intention.

The analogy was about climate change causing major disruptions. Like war over water sources and movement of people due to raising sea levels. This is already happened and will happened more. We need to change the way we live so we will not just be making the problems even worse.

While I totally believe we can reduce CO2 (starting with building clean power like nuclear), I don't believe any reduction will be enough to change what has already happened. Part of human survival is adaptation and if sea level rising causes people to move to higher ground, then that's what they will do. We already war over idiotic things like borders, drugs, and politics, which we have total control over, and inevitably we will fight over resources.
Sea water can be desalinized, it's just expensive, so I doubt we'll ever run out of water, but if it came to that maybe people will be more conscious about how they use it. Especially in America, waste of resources is normal (that's why we have huge houses with big heating and cooling bills, SUV or big trucks) and until the resources run low, no one will care.

Yes, I did look at them. Higher CO2 levels are being to be caused by humans today. In the past their have been different reasons for the Higher C02 levels. In the past there were many natural causes for this change in co2 today the change is being caused by humans.

IPCC scientists believe that there is a greater than
90 percent chance that most of the warming we have
experienced since the 1950s is due to the increase in
greenhouse gas emissions from human activities.
cycling of heat from the ocean to the atmosphere.

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/dow...ate_Basics.pdf

Do you believe that we should ignore all of the worlds top scientists when they say that Human civilization is at stake ? Like I have shown in past posts.

You would fix your gas leak because you love your family. Even though it would cause great economic hard ship. For only a 10% chance. All of the worlds top minds are now telling us there is a 90% chance of great problems for all of humanity. If you love your human family you would also support political and personal changes that would not just make things worse.

I do believe that human CO2 is assisting a "higher" temperature flux, I'm just not convinced that it's human CO2 that is the total cause of the warming. But I do believe we have much better options, especially in energy usage, that would reduce the emissions. As human civilization being at stake, I don't take that from them seriously.

This is not about Animals. I have never asked anybody to stop eating meat.
I don't eat meat because of religious and moral reasons. I dont support Peta because I don't think I have the right to tell others not to eat meat.
I am just asking people to eat self-sustaining sources of meat. Hunt, raise rabbits in your back yard, or buy meat from good sources that don't destroy the environment. (I.E. Grass feed Beef)

Animals die it is only natural. Still we do not need to be so cruel to any living thing. The meat industry treats animals like they are not living beings and they don't feel pain. On top of that they are destroying the environment.

If all most of us can do is go from eating meat from 14 meals a week to 10 thats a good place to start.

I believe it is extremely naive to believe Humans are going to stop eating meat. This is why my beliefs differ from Peta.

While I believe what you think can be done is attainable, until meat prices actually get out of hand, I don't believe we'll see a reduction in consumption.

[Wannabe Yogi]

Originally Posted by ninerbuff

I don't believe we'll see a reduction in consumption.

I have to agree.

[ninerbuff]

Originally Posted by Wannabe Yogi

Maybe i gave the wrong USGS site sorry I can't find it now. Here is one more

In other words, human CO2 emissions are over 100 times greater than volcanic emissions.

Two attempts to blame global warming on volcanoes

After looking at this and other links, I will concede that human CO2 exceeds that of what volcanoes put out. See, I can admit being wrong.

[ninerbuff]

Originally Posted by Wannabe Yogi

A few of the unethical and immoral things the meat industry have done to Animals:

-Genetically altering Turkeys so they have so much breast meat they can't walk in a straight line.
-Altering the genes of pigs so much that they are incapable of mating without artificial insemination.
-26 pounds of sea life is killed for every 1 pond of shrimp taken from the sea.
-The EPA said that 35,000 miles of river in America have been polluted by animal excrement.
-Chickens are de-beaked so they can live in an area the size of a standard piece of paper without hurting other birds.
-180 million chickens are improperly slaughter each year (-National Chicken Council)
Many are boiled alive in scalding tanks.
-Slaughter house workers have he highest injury rate of any job in America 27%
-No laws in America about how male egg laying chickens are deposed of. Some are just put in plastic bags others are put in grinders.
-Most States let the corperations define what is cruelty. So anything goes when it comes to killing Animals as long as it is a practice adopted by the industry.

Money has a way of disassociation with cruel acts. But again, there will be very few that will be willing to raise their own meat because of the work involved in it. And while they can eat prepacked meat, can some actually kill their own food?