Phoenicians and Flying Ships (ritual, beliefs, soul, grace, hell)

[MaddLlama]

Originally Posted by yuvgotmel

For whatever reason you want to argue this, I do not know. There is nothing here to "debate."

It is not "purely a New Age idea" as you said. The Greek view of the world was very interactive, viewing the quintessence in all things. It is a method of perceiving patterns and meaning through ordinary circumstances. It is a method of communication from one realm to another. It is--what people now often refer to as--astral travel.

Heaven-hell, life-death, matter-quintessence were all happening on the same playing field in the Greek perspective.

There is good evidence that "hell" as described in Homer's "Odyssey" and later in Dante's "Inferno" is (or was rather) an actual place located in a little town in southern Italy called Baia. Amateur archaeologists have been exploring the man-made underground labyrinth since 1962. Because of lack of funding, the Italian government has not sponsered official digs. However, author Robert Temple and National Geographic have made documentaries and gathered much information on the site. Please refer to "Oracles of the Dead: Ancient Techniques for Predicting the Future" by Robert Temple for more information.

You just answered your own question with your previous sentence. The Greeks did believe that the "Gods were physical beings."

ET phone home. Are you ready for your genetic upgrade?

The Greeks did believe that the "gods" had form, came down from heaven (and/or the mountains) to marry and have relationships with humans, brought humans knowledge, manipulated matter, and were often depicted in iconography as having wings.

I don't think that I made a big deal about the Greeks being "non-monotheistic"; that has not been a part of this discussion or a central topic. Perhaps you are not understanding the material. That may be why you seem to be finding fault and arguing where there is no cause for either.

So....you're saying that the Greek Gods are actually aliens....? That's a bit of a rediculous assumption.

You keep stating that the Greeks worshipped many gods. To which I have to ask "so what?".

I'm sorry that you feel like you have to "dumb yourself down" to speak to us silly people who just don't get it, but frankly I find your ideas about Greek culture and mythology to be incredibly off-base and lacking any historical context, and I find you hard to understand because I'm trying to translate new-age speak.

I cannot agree with any of the things you say are just simple fact, except for the last two. But, to me, it is rediculous to claim that the gods of classical mythology are aliens, that mysticism is equal to astral travelling (actually I see no reason to believe the Greeks even had a notion of this concept), and that poetic writing is a form of divination.

[gnomon]

Originally Posted by yuvgotmel

No, but I'm aware of his writings. If I'm correct, he detailed many signs, omens and portents as understood by the Greeks to observe everything from when to plant seed to how to knowing weather patterns through the observations of animal behavior. I could be wrong, because I have not read his writings except for excerpts. However, now that you have mentioned it, I will read his works. Thank you.

I ask because so far you have only referenced Homer. I would think, if you wish to know about archaic Greek mythology, that Hesiod's "Theogony" would be better. You might find that "Works and Days" presents a somewhat different concept than you describe.

[XAAX]

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

So....you're saying that the Greek Gods are actually aliens....? That's a bit of a ridiculous assumption.

Is it Llama, is it any less ridiculous that Noah built a boat that "saved" all the animals? No its not. They are both somewhat absurd concepts, yet all I ever see you argue with are those that aren’t within the excepted normalcy of religion.

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

I'm sorry that you feel like you have to "dumb yourself down" to speak to us silly people who just don't get it.

Don't beat yourself up Llama, we are all at different levels of conscience and understanding.

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

I cannot agree with any of the things you say are just simple fact, except for the last two. But, to me, it is ridiculous to claim that the gods of classical mythology are aliens, that mysticism is equal to astral traveling (actually I see no reason to believe the Greeks even had a notion of this concept), and that poetic writing is a form of divination.

Although I have no idea if this is true or not. I am at least open to the concept of possibilities. You should learn to do the same versus wanting to argue frivolously over threads only to come out looking silly. I guess it just makes some people feel better to argue over nothing. I personally have no time for such things.

[MaddLlama]

Originally Posted by XAAX

Is it Llama, is it any less ridiculous that Noah built a boat that "saved" all the animals? No its not. They are both somewhat absurd concepts, yet all I ever see you argue with are those that aren’t within the excepted normalcy of religion.

I find the literal interpretation of the Bible to be less irritating than the blatant misrepresentation of an entire culture and its religious beliefs to further some sort of new age agenda. But, both ideas are equally rediculous.

Don't beat yourself up Llama, we are all at different levels of conscience and understanding.

Apparently.

Although I have no idea if this is true or not. I am at least open to the concept of possibilities. You should learn to do the same versus wanting to argue frivolously over threads only to come out looking silly. I guess it just makes some people feel better to argue over nothing. I personally have no time for such things.

While this may be a frivolous issue to you, to me, it isn't. I like history, I like classical mythology, and I have spent a considerable amount of free time, college electives and money learning about it. I don't really appriciate someone who demonstrates little knowledge of the historical and cultural context of the Greeks to waltz in and claim things that have little basis in fact. I'm sorry if my love for and desire to protect real history offends you. I am open to concepts and possibilities, but I am not so open minded that I let my brain fall out. If someone says something that all possible intelligent interpretation of a classical text disagrees with, I am disinclined to accept it with no real supporting evidence.

You want to claim that Atermis is an alien? Fine, then you're going to have to give more proof than "the Greeks believed their gods interacted with them". Jesus was supposedly god incarnate, does that make him an alien? This, of course, is not even mentioning the fact that the mythologies and legends such as the ones written by Homer are stories. No normal Greek person ever met face to face with Zeus. They believed they were real, and they believed they effected change in their lives, but they had no more physical contact with their gods than the Christians do today. These stories are myths, myths that help people understand the world around them, they are not first hand accounts. I have no intention of standing idle while someone cheapens them by likening the gods to little green men from mars.

[yuvgotmel]

Former Canadian Minister of Defense Asks Canadian Parliament to Hold Hearings On Relations With Alien "ET" Civilizations:
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2005/11/prweb314382.htm

Project Disclosure:
http://www.disclosureproject.com/

The National UFO Reporting Center:
http://www.nuforc.org/

Graham Hancock's website:
http://www.grahamhancock.com/news/index.php
(Graham Hancock is an author of several books and well-known researcher, especially of unexplainable things like the pyramids on Mars, etc.)

UFOs in Mexico:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...84471236&q=ufo

Prepared for DISCLOSURE:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...18799270&q=ufo
[Many persons (among varying government occupations) come forward (with their firsthand accounts), tell their story briefly (on the video at link above), and each person ends with saying that they are prepared to testify before Congress.]

UFO history:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...20725604&q=ufo
(This video goes through the history step-by-step how the UFO and ETs changed our history for over 50 years. This particular subject affects everything from the elite, religion, drug war and everything in between.)

The Catholic Church and ET Relations:
http://www.sundayherald.com/53020
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/sto...ns/0506301.htm
http://www.cts-online.org.uk/explanations.htm

Steven Quayle's website:
http://www.stevequayle.com/
(Author and popular guest host on Coast to Coast AM, Steven Quayle has researched the possibility that today's ET are yesterday's nefilim.)

Former Majestic 12 member speaks out:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...24297513952563

Project Camelot (Interview with John Lear): http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4620458082875021579&q=Project+Came lot&hl=en

Interview with Gary McKinnon (the guy that hacked into the Pentagon's computer system looking for UFO technology): http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+Camelot&hl=en

Ancient Artifacts as it concerns extra-dimensional species and foreign "gods":
http://www.ancientx.com/
http://xfacts.com/

UFOs through the Ages:
http://www.greatdreams.com/cnsprcy.htm
http://www.rense.com/ufo4/historyofufo.htm

US Presidents and UFOs:
http://www.presidentialufo.com/

Fastwalkers - Ufo and Alien Disclosure 2006:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...2&q=disclosure

UFO Quotes:
http://www.ufocasebook.com/ufoquotes1.html

[MaddLlama]

That's all very interesting, but it is all speculation, really. There is no real historical or archeological evidence that aliens visited ancient cultures. It has about the same scientific research and validity as Sasquatch.
There is nothing in ancient mythology that unquestioningly points to alien influence. There are a number of other explanations and interpretations that are far more plausible before we even consider "aliens" as a possibility.

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

There is nothing in ancient mythology that unquestioningly points to alien influence.

If I read the OP right, the topic is not about "proof" but a discussion of symbolic understanding.

Unfortuantely, I haven't read Greek mythology or I'd be right in the heat of the discussion.

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

There are a number of other explanations and interpretations that are far more plausible before we even consider "aliens" as a possibility.

Go for it!

[MaddLlama]

Originally Posted by Willamena

If I read the OP right, the topic is not about "proof" but a discussion of symbolic understanding.

That's fine, but you don't misrepresent a text, or read it totally out of context, to make it say what you want.

Go for it!

I already did. The idea that the Greeks believed that the Phoenicians had flying ships is simple a misinterpretation of literary devices like symbolism, metaphors and similes that were often used by Greek authors, and even used in modern writing to make it more colorful and less boring. If someone says "his feet moved like a cheetah as he ran", does that mean that the person being referred to has paws?