Agnosticism Overview discussion (reject, Earth, atheist, religious leader, Almighty)

[civilcynic]

Nicely done explanation of agnosticism!

I call myself agnostic for lack of any better description. Despite being raised Christian, I have serious doubts about the existence of God or a Supreme Being who is supposedly watching over and/or monitoring us. On the other hand, I also have a fervently wish & hope that there is a good Almighty Being.....I just can't convince myself of that.

What I do know is that I reject organized religion and its institutions which, for centuries, caused a tremendous amount of hatred, intolerance and violence "in the name of God".

I am willing to take my chances as an agnostic to 'meet the Maker' if he indeed exists than be judged by religious leaders on earth.

[godischange]

Can I take a hand at summing up?

What I get from all of this is Agnostics don't deny there is a higher being, but they don't admit there is one. And apparently there are a lot of agnostics out there. I like the quote many use for a "militant agnostic". - I don't know and neither do you! Do I get the jist or am I missing something?

[The Voice of Reason]

Godischange -

I think you're summation is close, but I would gamble that the overwhelming majority of agnostics are still searching for God (or will never close the door on the possibility of God's existence).

About the "militant agnostic": I would venture that very few agnostics subscribe to the "and you don't either" part. Most agnostics are much more in the camp of CivilCynic - that is to say that while we have no empirical knowledge of God, we are still searching. Beyond that, we would have no right to deny your belief in God (after all - for all we know, you may actually speak directly to God, while we have not had that privilege).

Civilcynic -

Good to have you on board. I was also raised as a Christian (Southern Baptist), and have since thrown off the yoke of organized religion. For me, my ability to think rationally allowed me to question the real reason for organized religions. I was 25 years old when I first read Bertrand Russell's "Why I am Not a Christian". What a book for a young man to read! Can I get an "AMEN"?

[Holly]

I consider myself to be a Theistic Agnostic. Does that make any sense? Basically, I feel that it is impossible to know for sure whether or not a supreme being exists. However, I do believe in a supreme being. I am just very skeptical of most organized religions.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by Holly

I consider myself to be a Theistic Agnostic. Does that make any sense?

It makes perfect sense.

Unfortunately, many people have thought little about the difference between believing and knowing and, as a result, simply do not know what they do not know.

[The Voice of Reason]

Originally Posted by Holly

I consider myself to be a Theistic Agnostic.

I don't speak for Deut, but I believe this is the converse of what Deut sees me as - an Agnostic Atheist. By that, I mean that I do not believe in God (based on logic and rational thought), but I do not close the door on the possiblity of His existence.

Is that also a fair summation of your use of the term, Deut?

Thanks,
TVOR

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by The Voice of Reason

... an Agnostic Atheist. By that, I mean that I do not believe in God (based on logic and rational thought), but I do not close the door on the possiblity of His existence.

There is a near unbounded set of possible things, a set that would include such things as Loch Ness and your typically buxom Mermaid.

The supernatural, however, renders meaningless all verifiable methods for accessing knowledge - it devours the possibility of knowledge. To talk about the possibility of the supernatural is very much like talking about the 'possibility' that {K = all knowledge is illusion** while realizing that {K** is self-referential.

Put somewhat differently: to the extent that I can know anyhing, I am comfortable that there is no God - but only to that extent.

[roli]

[quote=The Voice of Reason]I t By that, I mean that I do not believe in God (based on logic and rational thought), but I do not close the door on the possiblity of His existence.

What is it you think that caused you to become agnostic and turn from christian belief , besides the voice of reason,which places a stigma upon organized religion and rightly so, for history has proven religion to be a socially repulsive adherent for all people universally and is therefore shunned upon.
What other realm is there for you other then logic and rational thought that could ever cause that door to open enough for you to believe in God's existence.
Is there a spiritual realm out there that supercedes the realm of reason and logic that you have just not encountered.
What would have to happen for you to see it, terminal sickness ,end up in the hospital,fatal accident that might threaten your life, near death, drug alcohol problem or maybe just a harmless forum response like this one, don't get me wrong, I am not trying to convert you or anyone, I can't do the conversions, they are of a supernatural nature, but are available to all. This is just a voice of spiritual reasoning.
But in and of itself, this agnostic view inherently can become a position that can sub-consciously and even consciously justifiy amorality for many, excusing their immoral behavior and and giving reason for there free expressions and indulgences of self gradification.
If we admit there is a God and He can be known ,we have just warrented and imposed on ourselves a set of standards higher then our own self righteous ones. Conscience informs us that we have knowingly violated those standards and are declared guilty, providing the conscience has not been seared as with a hot iron from the secular humanism and relative mind sets
Did not Christ himself oppose and expose religious practice among the pharisee's
and rebuked those who practiced it.The highesty religious leaders crucified Christ, for various reasons, that should tell us there is a problem with religion.
If He did that, then the next question would be ,what was He involved in if religion was rebuked by Him,

[Ghostdog]

Great piece roli..... very interesting observation.

From what I undestand Jesus was originaly a rabbi who became a heritic...going on his own as he saw the truth of his wisdom come into his life and pronounced his way to his mentors and people.

Arent we such a bunch of sheep .......as a whole..always second hand followers of something. I was brought up to believe that suffering was a way of life and really believed it untill i knew better. I mean can you imagine showing a little child the picture of Jesus crucified nailed and speared, thorns piercing his head and ruining this little childs pure mind , infecting with dogma and belief.
Thats not to deny the man himself who indeed was a living master and who really lived what he spoke of in my observations , I Think thats why they crucified him because he threatened their status quo and falshoods. The truth is often found to be insulting to the ignorant.
Have you read any Krishnamurti or Barry Long ..interesting reads
Pilate once said what is truth......truth is disguised in all that is false !