U.S. Muslims and Mormons share deepening ties (Jesus Christ, translation)

[kai]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

Be BOLD! Part of logic is a certain degree of skepticism. Part of good skepticism is patience to see what outcomes may arise.

Regards,
Scott

i patiently await the outcome of those who boldly go where no man has gone before,

[YmirGF]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Well, it's good that we're not concerned about the negative ramifications of being nice then, huh? People will always hate us. They don't really need valid reasons. If people hate us even more because of our relationship with Muslims or Jews or anybody else, that's their problem, not ours.

Sorry Kathryn it is just so odd to cozy up to a religion that openly dismisses your prophet and laughs outright at the idea of god having a physical body. Good luck on the bake sale.

[Rolling_Stone]

Jesus was—and is—the consummate teacher. Never in the Bible or in my favorite book, The Urantia Book, do we see Jesus debating. The Urantia Book tells us about a Greek philosopher, Rodan, who came to meet with Jesus. And though Jesus did graciously receive him, he declined to enter into a conference with him and instructed that Nathaniel and Thomas should listen to all he had to say and tell him about the gospel in return. This they did, and The Urantia Book makes clear that Rodan was much worth listening to. But Rodan contended that “In order to be a person, God must have symbols of spirit communication which would enable him to become fully understood by those who make contact with him. But since God is infinite and eternal, the Creator of all other beings, it follows that, as regards beings of equality, God is alone in the universe. There are none equal to him; there are none with whom he can communicate as an equal. God indeed may be the source of all personality, but as such he is transcendent to personality, even as the Creator is above and beyond the creature.” We are told that “Nathaniel appealed to his own personal experience with God, and that Rodan allowed, affirming that he had recently had similar experiences, but these experiences, he contended, proved only the reality of God, not his personality.”

Thomas and Nathaniel were greatly troubled by this and asked Jesus to come to their rescue, but Jesus refused, saying to Thomas: “It matters little what idea of the Father you may entertain as long as you are spiritually acquainted with the ideal of his infinite and eternal nature.” This is my favorite saying. I won't go into details of how the following discussion between Nathaniel, Thomas and Rodan went except to say that, in the end, Rodan was convinced of the personality of God. Nevertheless, I am convinced that the debate Nathaniel and Thomas had with Rodan was a mistake. The desire for uniformity of thought was with the apostles from the very beginning of Jesus' ministry. For before Rodan, there was a discussion about spiritual unity and James asked,

“Master, how shall we learn to see alike and thereby enjoy more harmony among ourselves?” When Jesus heard this question, he was stirred within his spirit, so much so that he replied: “James, James, when did I teach you that you should all see alike? I have come into the world to proclaim spiritual liberty to the end that mortals may be empowered to live individual lives of originality and freedom before God. I do not desire that social harmony and fraternal peace shall be purchased by the sacrifice of free personality and spiritual originality. What I require of you, my apostles, is spirit unity—and that you can experience in the joy of your united dedication to the wholehearted doing of the will of my Father in heaven. You do not have to see alike or feel alike or even think alike in order spiritually to be alike. Spiritual unity is derived from the consciousness that each of you is indwelt, and increasingly dominated, by the spirit gift of the heavenly Father. Your apostolic harmony must grow out of the fact that the spirit hope of each of you is identical in origin, nature, and destiny.

“In this way you may experience a perfected unity of spirit purpose and spirit understanding growing out of the mutual consciousness of the identity of each of your indwelling Paradise spirits; and you may enjoy all of this profound spiritual unity in the very face of the utmost diversity of your individual attitudes of intellectual thinking, temperamental feeling, and social conduct. Your personalities may be refreshingly diverse and markedly different, while your spiritual natures and spirit fruits of divine worship and brotherly love may be so unified that all who behold your lives will of a surety take cognizance of this spirit identity and soul unity; they will recognize that you have been with me and have thereby learned, and acceptably, how to do the will of the Father in heaven. You can achieve the unity of the service of God even while you render such service in accordance with the technique of your own original endowments of mind, body, and soul.

“Your spirit unity implies two things, which always will be found to harmonize in the lives of individual believers: First, you are possessed with a common motive for life service; you all desire above everything to do the will of the Father in heaven. Second, you all have a common goal of existence; you all purpose to find the Father in heaven, thereby proving to the universe that you have become like him.”

Many times during the training of the twelve Jesus reverted to this theme. Repeatedly he told them it was not his desire that those who believed in him should become dogmatized and standardized in accordance with the religious interpretations of even good men. Again and again he warned his apostles against the formulation of creeds and the establishment of traditions as a means of guiding and controlling believers in the gospel of the kingdom. (Pg. 1591)

Now, all this having been said, it should nevertheless be made clear that what we believe is also important: “After all,” as The Urantia Book says, “it is what one believes rather than what one knows that determines conduct and dominates personal performances. Purely factual knowledge exerts very little influence upon the average man unless it becomes emotionally activated.” We've seen that religion without spirit-realization of unity is no better than emotionally activated facts devoid of God. Therefore, let faith stand for our relationship with God; let our beliefs stand for the conceptual interpretation of the genuine religious experience of ideal-values rather than incontrovertible facts. For “The mission of theology is merely to facilitate the self-consciousness of personal spiritual experience. Theology constitutes the religious effort to define, clarify, expound, and justify the experiential claims of religion, which, in the last analysis, can be validated only by living faith.”

[kai]

Originally Posted by YmirGF

Sorry Kathryn it is just so odd to cozy up to a religion that openly dismisses your prophet and laughs outright at the idea of god having a physical body. Good luck on the bake sale.

halal of course!

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by YmirGF

Sorry Kathryn it is just so odd to cozy up to a religion that openly dismisses your prophet and laughs outright at the idea of god having a physical body. Good luck on the bake sale.

Well, all religions other than my own openly dismiss our prophet and laugh outright at the idea of God having a physical body. I guess that means we ought to all hole up in a remote site in Texas, dress like pioneers and start having sex with our kids. Nobody likes us. Everybody hates us. We're gonna go and eat worms!

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by kai

halal of course!

Unless it is some kind of meat pie, baking does n ot apply to halal.
adjective Definition: 1. ritually slaughtered: describes meat from animals that have been slaughtered in the ritual way prescribed by Islamic law

2. of halal meat: relating to halal meat

"Halal" is much more restricted that "Kosher".

Regards, Scott

[YmirGF]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Well, all religions other than my own openly dismiss our prophet and laugh outright at the idea of God having a physical body. I guess that means we ought to all hole up in a remote site in Texas, dress like pioneers and start having sex with our kids. Nobody likes us. Everybody hates us. We're gonna go and eat worms!

Tut, tut, Kathryn. I will be honest, I am and have been unaware of how you are hated so. That is simply not my experience. In Canada, Mormon's are viewed theologically as being "a bit off the beam" but I have never heard ANYONE express hatred towards Mormon. Dead straight. Heck, I love you folks... why does it matter what others think, lol. It is not every religion that can claim the undying affections of a living frost giant, don'tcha know. I guess, all I am trying to say is "be careful", though you may have to understand a great deal more about Islam to understand why exactly.

[Rolling_Stone]

I don't see why people discuss differences in theology when talking about a gesture that transcends theology. The focus of discussion should be on shared goals and values, not creeds.

[kai]

Originally Posted by Rolling_Stone

I don't see why people discuss differences in theology when talking about a gesture that transcends theology. The focus of discussion should be on shared goals and values, not creeds.

what are the shared goals and values?