Ascension of Jesus (ritual, Earth, Kingdom, incarnation, soul)

[Halcyon]

I put this here because it doesn't matter if you're Christian or Muslim (and possibly Baha'i???) you believe at some point Jesus ascended bodily into heaven.

So, my question is where do you think heaven is for a physical body to ascend into?

I think most people realise that ancient peoples tended to refer to the sky as (what we would translate to) heaven or the heavens, so is it possible that they simply meant he ascended up into the sky?

Or do you see heaven as a physical place somewhere "up there" for him to ascend too?

Or do you believe something else entirely?

[JayHawes]

Jesus did ascend Physically, but no flesh and blood can enter heaven or the presense of God. At some point Jesus was transfigured just as was before into his glorified body ( Mark 9:2 ).

Heaven is the place where God is, it is outside of this universe and outside of time, no flesh can reach it, only a spirit being can.

heaven has threefold meanings :

1) the sky, where birds fly (Matthew 3:16).
2) Outer Space (Job 9:8, Jeremiah 51:16).
3) A place where God is (John 14:2,3).

Jesus did not enter heaven bodily, but as a transfigured being.

[angellous_evangellous]

So, my question is where do you think heaven is for a physical body to ascend into?

I think that it's wherever God wants it to be. The NT I think intends heaven to be a different state of being, expressed in notions of sky - it is "above" literally, but it is a metaphysical place that interacts with the physical.

The message of Christianity is that of resurrection and renewal, and we will be resurrected into the perfect heavenly reality - a physical body that can interact with the metaphysical nature of God after the pattern of the incarnation and resurrection of Jesus.

I think most people realise that ancient peoples tended to refer to the sky as (what we would translate to) heaven or the heavens, so is it possible that they simply meant he ascended up into the sky?

Yes - but the sky is not just the sky - it's a completely different state of being.

[Francine]

Originally Posted by JayHawes

Heaven is the place where God is, it is outside of this universe and outside of time, no flesh can reach it, only a spirit being can.

Do you suppose they noticed when Paul went there without a spirit body?

2 Cor 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

[Popeyesays]

"Ascent" and "Descent" are not real. The Spirit of truth is always in heaven, even as it is always on earth.

These holy realities are as reflectors, and the reality of divinity is as the sun which although it is reflected from the mirrors, and its virtues and perfections become resplendent therein, does not stoop from its own station of majesty and glory and seek abode in the mirrors; it remains in its heaven of sanctity. At most it is this, that its lights become manifest and evident in its mirrors or manifestations. Therefore its bounty proceeding from them is one bounty but the recipients of that bounty are many. This is the unity of God; this is oneness;--unity of divinity, holy above ascent or descent, embodiment, comprehension or idealization;--divine unity. The prophets are its mirrors; its lights are revealed through them; its virtues become resplendent in them, but the Sun of Reality never descends from its own highest point and station. This is unity, oneness, sanctity; this is glorification whereby we praise and adore God. "
Abdu'l Baha, Baha`i World Faith, p. 260

And:
"
To every discerning and illuminated heart it is evident that God, the unknowable Essence, the Divine Being, is immensely exalted beyond every human attribute, such as corporeal existence, ascent and descent, egress and regress. Far be it from His glory that human tongue should adequately recount His praise, or that human heart comprehend His fathomless mystery. He is, and hath ever been, veiled in the ancient eternity of His Essence, and will remain in His Reality everlastingly hidden from the sight of men. "No vision taketh in Him, but He taketh in all vision; He is the Subtile, the All-Perceiving."...

Gleanings from the Writings of Baha`u'llah, p.46

[EtuMalku]

There would be no use for a physical body in Heaven!
Jesus' Spirit / Soul ascended.

[arthra]

Originally Posted by Halcyon

I put this here because it doesn't matter if you're Christian or Muslim (and possibly Baha'i???) you believe at some point Jesus ascended bodily into heaven.

So, my question is where do you think heaven is for a physical body to ascend into?

I think most people realise that ancient peoples tended to refer to the sky as (what we would translate to) heaven or the heavens, so is it possible that they simply meant he ascended up into the sky?

Or do you see heaven as a physical place somewhere "up there" for him to ascend too?

Or do you believe something else entirely?

Baha'is don't believe that the physical body of Jesus ascended to heaven...

The body returns to the elements from whence it came. The Spirit ascends or descends and has a spiritual not a physical reality..



The reference to Jesus ascending on a cloud should we believe be taken symbolically rather than literally..

Read what Abdul-Baha said on the subject:

Observe that it is said, "The Son of man is in heaven," while at that time Christ was on earth. Notice also that it is said that Christ came from heaven, though He came from the womb of Mary, and His body was born of Mary.

It is clear, then, that when it is said that the Son of man is come from heaven, this has not an outward but an inward signification; it is a spiritual, not a material, fact.

The meaning is that though, apparently, Christ was born from the womb of Mary, in reality He came from heaven, from the center of the Sun of Reality, from the Divine World, and the Spiritual Kingdom. And as it has become evident that Christ came from the spiritual heaven of the Divine Kingdom, therefore, His disappearance under the earth for three days has an inner signification and is not an outward fact. In the same way, His resurrection from the interior of the earth is also symbolical; it is a spiritual and divine fact, and not material; and likewise His ascension to heaven is a spiritual and not material ascension.

Source:

Part Two -- Some Christian Subjects

[Te Deum]

Just to make a few comments, it is a long held doctrine of the Church that must be believed that Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, did indeed arise into Heaven both body and soul.

1. The Ascension is mentioned in the Bible

I have heard the Ascension called the capstone of the life of Jesus, but Jesus is not gone completely! He has promised to remain with us till the end of the ages, and He does this by the Holy Eucharist. Jesus Christ is in the Holy Eucharist. When Jesus was speaking of the Eucharist, His disciples were murmuring about having to eat His flesh. Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you? Then how will you react when you see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?" (Jn.6:61-62).

The record of the Ascension is in Acts 1:1-12

2. Miracles Illustrate the Authenticity of the Ascension

Regarding the place from which Christ ascended, Sulpicius, bishop of Jerusalem, says, and the 'Gloss' also says, that when a church was built [on the Mount of Olives] later on, the spot where Christ had stood could never be covered with pavement; and more than that, the marble slabs placed there burst upwards into the faces of those who were laying them. He also says that footmarks in the dust there prove that the Lord had stood on that spot: the footprints are discernible and the ground still retains the depressions his feet had left.

Amazing!

[arthra]

The really sad thing to me is that I believe historically the emphasis on a physical resurrection or the miraculous in religion such as apparitions and so on like the dormition of Mary and such detract from the Gospel..the Good News of the teachings of Jesus.

- Art

[Francine]

Originally Posted by Te Deum

He also says that footmarks in the dust there prove that the Lord had stood on that spot: the footprints are discernible and