How far is Heaven? (Jesus, Earth, gospel, tradition, followers)

[wmam]

Originally Posted by Unes

the question was after 2000 years why it has taken so long for Jesus to come back?

Because it isn't up to Him as to when. Only the Father knows. It's the Most High's time table and not ours or anyone elses.

[Unes]

Originally Posted by yuvgotmel

“The Kingdom of Heaven is Within You”

and ... “The Meek Shall Inherit the EARTH.”

If there be any truth to Jesus’ message and he was truly an ascended master, then his teachings reflected not a physical location but a long-term pursuit of introspection and enlightenment. Looking for “heaven” or “god” outside of yourself leads to Alien worlds.

Perhaps as technologies advance, maybe mankind will be able to travel to "heaven" then.

Also

Originally Posted by astarath

Heaven is where the entity of God exists. I am not refering to the God that exists inside all of us nor the parts of God in everything but rather the corporeal(spirtual not material) form of God resides.

Also

Originally Posted by wizanda

Heaven is surrounding us, in a transcendental dimensions, above the fabric of this reality in consciousness.

yuvgotmel, astarath, and wizanda, it seems you missed the whole point of my argument. I am trying to point out the contradictions within the Christianity Theology. As a result I am trying to prove that Jesus' Divinity is a HOAX.

Originally Posted by wizanda

As for John being Abrahamic I deny that strongly, on the ground John’s gospel is anti-Christ.

It stands against Christ (in the other gospels) and the Bible, so how on earth we can say it is abrahamic is beyond me, especially if in John, Christ is said to have called all the other prophets, no nothings, until he came along....looks like Pharisees making stuff up again, as John was.

wizanda, if this claim is true, then what can we say about the Christianity, which embraces John Gospel!?

So wizanda, we are agreeing that the Christianity Theology is totally incoherent, confused, and contradictory Theology!

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

Because the time of the Gentiles is not complete.

Also

Originally Posted by wmam

Because it isn't up to Him as to when. Only the Father knows. It's the Most High's time table and not ours or anyone elses.

sandy whitelinger and wmam, I did acknowledged; that Jesus does not know the “End Date”. But apparently you forgot the rest of my arguments! It is not good to be forgetful to this extend! Some people might interpret that as deceptions!

May God Bless us all,
Unes

[wmam]

Originally Posted by Unes

wmam, I did acknowledged; that Jesus does not know the “End Date”. But apparently you forgot the rest of my arguments! It is not good to be forgetful to this extend! Some people might interpret that as deceptions!

I admit with all the other gibberish going on I did forget most of your arguments. Would you do this old bat a favor and list them in order and categorically so that I and others can attempt to address them please? I will state that I will go as far as to agree with you now as to the divinity of this jesus as being a hoax. Its not even the real name of the real Mashiach.

[Unes]

Originally Posted by wmam

I admit with all the other gibberish going on I did forget most of your arguments. Would you do this old bat a favor and list them in order and categorically so that I and others can attempt to address them please? I will state that I will go as far as to agree with you now as to the divinity of this Jesus as being a hoax. Its not even the real name of the real Mashiach.

wmam, I did not mean to be offensive in this matter. I can summarize my argument as follows, even though some of these concepts have not been discussed in this
thread:

1. Without resorting to the supernatural phenomena I rationally concluded the existence of a Designer for this Universe.

2. Believing in God should NOT obligate us to accept the Holy Books as DIRECT words from God. If words of God are here to enlighten us, then they should do so, without any AMBIGUITY!

3. From the verses of the Bible we can clearly prove that Moses Story is a Fiction.

4. From the verses of the Bible we can easily Prove that Jesus’ Divinity is a HOAX.

5. Prophet Mohammad lied when he claimed verses of the Holy Koran were dictated to him by Angle Gabriel. It is so pathetic to claim the hodgepodge verses of Koran came from Mighty God. It is so sad that in this Age of Reasons and Enlightenment still some educated Muslims are praising the primitive verses of Koran as the Ultimate Literature. Holy Koran repeats the same Bible Stories, but in a chaotic and incomprehensive manner. Then, we have to conclude that God who wrote the Holy Bible had lost his marvels when he revealed the verses of Koran!!!

6. The same way that our scientists freed the science from the misconceptions of the past, we need to correct the content of our Holy Books. Our brilliant brains are our Gift from God, and we are obligated to use our brains to their utmost potentials. And whoever denies us the "Freedom of Thoughts" they are only FALSE prophets.

7. Our spiritual growth is only possible, when we use the full power of our brains to explore the structure of this Universe, and from that we sense the presence of the Creator, and then maybe we find out the purpose of our existence.


The Abrahamic Theologies are part of our Humanity cultures, which belong to ALL of us, and in practice they are affecting every one of us. So we as members of the human race have every right to be concern about what these institutions are teaching to their followers. These doctrines are not so benign and peaceful educations, which they only mind their own business, they do reach out and touch the whole communities of nations. Under the banner of Peace and submission to God they do insight enormous Crises. The fanatics cannot be left alone, since their activities are affecting everybody. The clash of the religions is a serious matter, which is affecting everybody, and we have seen the root causes of the “war on terror”. So it is our vital interests to resolve these problems.

The affairs of the Faith are too important that we take them so lightly and allow them to be manipulated without an exhaustive examination. There have been so many abuses of the Faith. Our religions are supposed to remedy our human’s miseries, and give enlightenment to our spiritual growth, not to confuse us in many fronts.

May God Bless us all,
Unes

[wmam]

Originally Posted by Unes

wmam, I did not mean to be offensive in this matter.

Don't worry, none taken.

Originally Posted by Unes

I can summarize my argument as follows, even though some of these concepts have not been discussed in this thread:

Thanks

Originally Posted by Unes

1. Without resorting to the supernatural phenomena I rationally concluded the existence of a Designer for this Universe.

What is your definition of "supernatural phenomena" please.

Originally Posted by Unes

2. Believing in God does NOT obligate us to accept the Holy Books as DIRECT words from God.

The books wasn't in place until after Sinai so those individuals before wouldn't have had them and still had faith.........

Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that Elohim would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

I only agree as much as to state that if you have faith, or belief, that Abraham had before the knowledge of the Scriptures then you would be correct. Now if once you become aware of the Scripture and turn from them then I have to question that. Your
right that one doesn't have to have a bible to tell them that there is indeed a Elohim. I only have reservations with one that wouldn't accept those things spoken unto Moshe' in Sinai for the sons of Yisrael. As it is written, One can't serve two masters. We either accept the truths of the Most High and serve Him or we serve another.

Originally Posted by Unes

If words of God are here to enlighten us, then they should do so, without any AMBIGUITY!

Well you have to admit this is your opinion as to how you think it should be. In fact this is not the design of the Most High. One that truly wants to know the truth, and with a true heart (mind), and searches it out, shall receive it. The enemy's of Elohim have been given over to their own devices and are made deaf and blind to such truth's. I firmly believe that the scriptures define themselves and it isn't about what any of us think and feel but rather the will of the Most High. Remember the thoughts of man is evil continually. He cannot be trusted but the Most High can.

Originally Posted by Unes

3. From the verses of the Bible we can Prove that Jesus’ Divinity is a HOAX.

I do not accept this jesus being it is a pagan title but rather Yahshua as Ha Mashiach. And yes, I agree that Yahshua stated, as well as that Spirit/Malak within Him, that He wasn't. Flesh and blood cannot be. One cannot be apart of the other. There are things celestial and things terrestrial. Terrestrial cannot posses something celestial but something celestial can in fact posses something terrestrial.

Originally Posted by Unes

4. Our brilliant minds are our Gift from God, and we are obligated to use our brains to their utmost potentials. And whoever denies us the “Freedom of Thoughts” they are only FALSE prophets.

One should truly use their brains to understand simple things before looking into those things complicated.......

The heart is a organ that pumps blood and has no thought capabilities. One should, where in correct context, convert the word "heart" with that of "mind" like in........

Ecc 1:13 And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath Elohim given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.

-to-

Ecc 1:13 And I gave my mind to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath Elohim given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.

Originally Posted by Unes

5. Our spiritual growth is only possible, when we use the full power of our brains to explore the structure of this Universe, and from that we sense the presence of a Creator, and maybe we find out the purpose of our existence.

If we go by what we as man thinks and feels upon this matter then we are certain to fail this test. The answer is to search out and learn the unadulterated word of Elohim. Understand that which we have found. Then apply it. This would be what is already
written for the entire duty of man...........

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear Elohim, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Originally Posted by Unes

The Abrahamic Theologies are part of our Humanity cultures, which belong to ALL of us, and in practice they are affecting every one of us. So we as members of the human race have every right to be concern about what these institutions are teaching to their followers. These doctrines are not so benign and peaceful educations, which they only mind their own business, they do reach out and touch the whole communities of nations. Under the banner of Peace and submission to God they do insight enormous Crises. The fanatics cannot be left alone, since their activities are affecting everybody. The clash of the religions is a serious matter, which is affecting everybody, and we have seen the root causes of the “war on terror”. So it is our vital interests to resolve these problems.

But this is all been prophesied and seems to be a part of the big picture of things to come. Do we as men think we are so much more than that of the will of the Most High as to think we can change what started in the beginning? I think not. Time is running
out and we have to obey or answer to wrath. It is just that simple.

Originally Posted by Unes

The affairs of the Faith are too important that we take them so lightly and allow them to be manipulated without an exhaustive examination. There have been so many abuses of the Faith. Our religions are supposed to remedy our human’s
miseries, and give enlightenment to our spiritual growth, not to confuse us in many fronts.

As is your opinion. I respect that but I do disagree with it.

How far is the hand at the end of ones arm???????????????????????????????

[Runlikethewind]

Originally Posted by yuvgotmel

“The Kingdom of Heaven is Within You”

and ... “The Meek Shall Inherit the EARTH.”

If you are looking for a physical location of “heaven” or “god” outside of yourself, then you should plan to encounter extra-dimensional and extra-terrestrial beings (i.e. ETs, UFOs). An attempt to find a physical location for “heaven” is the equivalent of what the Gnostics consider the “Outer Darkness.” If there be any truth to Jesus’ message and he was truly an ascended master, then his teachings reflected not a physical location but a long-term pursuit of introspection and enlightenment. Looking for “heaven” or “god” outside of yourself leads to Alien worlds.

"If the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also, through his spirit that dwells in you."(Rom 8:11)
If the kingdom of God is within you in the form of the spirit that raised Jesus from the dead, then we too will get our bodies back after we die, at least this is the belief of many Christians. If we are to have bodies similar to that of Jesus' after the resurrection and at the transfiguration then Heaven has to be a place otherwise it would make no sense to have bodies. And having bodies is part of human nature, we are ensouled bodies not souls with bodies. We are one single nature body and soul and to spend eternity separated form our bodies would not be good for us. At least that's how I see it.

[Runlikethewind]

Originally Posted by Unes

2. Believing in God does NOT obligate us to accept the Holy Books as DIRECT words from God. If words of God are here to enlighten us, then they should do so, without any AMBIGUITY!



May God Bless us all,
Unes

If the words of God are here to enlighten us, especially the written words of the bible, then they must be able to speak to all peoples and times. Otherwise, we would have to get new words from God every time our concepts of the world change. The Bible, I belive, is inspired and not dictated. It takes a little work to get any meaning out of it and so it will be ambiguous by itself, it has to be enlightened by faith. The bible can't be perfectly clear because it has to communicate its message thought the thoughts of the author (because the author was inspired to write not compelled to take down the exact words) and because it has to address all peoples at all times.

[JayHawes]

Heaven is three things:

1) Heaven is the sky, the blue tent we see everyday, the place where the birds fly
2) Heaven is outerspace, the place where the planets are- the whole universe
3) Heaven is where God is, outside of this universe, no flesh can reach it