The term 'Anti-Semite'... (tradition, evolve, bible, Israel, faith)

[Daniyal]

I honestly do think that there is a problem using the word 'semite' only to refer to Jewish people. I think that both Muslims and Christians deserve the same title as 'semite' too.

I personally know someone who actually uses the term "anti-semite" for things Anti-Islamic and I think it is a good thing, since using the term semite could actually do alot to bring the three Abrahamic faiths together.


Your thoughts?

[Mike182]

Originally Posted by Daniyal

I honestly do think that there is a problem using the word 'semite' only to refer to Jewish people. I think that both Muslims and Christians deserve the same title as 'semite' too.

I personally know someone who actually uses the term "anti-semite" for things Anti-Islamic and I think it is a good thing, since using the term semite could actually do alot to bring the three Abrahamic faiths together.


Your thoughts?

words and definitions evolve and change, that's only natural. the purpose of words is to convey a message, so words are naturally bent and sculpted into meaning things they weren't necessarily meant to mean when they first originated..... in other words, i see no problem in the word "semite" being used to encumpas all abrahamic faiths, however you would have to show the advantages of doing that before it becomes widely accepted - working on the basis that the most widely held definition of a word at any time is the most correct one, because of the shared understanding of said word.

i can see confusion as a disadvantage of changing the definition of the word "semite", ie, "anti-semite" is a term being used in the middle east at the moment, to change the meaning of the word semite at the moment would cause confusion in the middle of an intense diplomatic situation... for me to accept the word "semite" as refering to all abrahamic faiths, you would need to show how the benefits outweigh the consequences, consequences like my example above, though i think others will hav ether objections.

did my rambling make any sense?

[michel]

Originally Posted by Mike182

words and definitions evolve and change, that's only natural. the purpose of words is to convey a message, so words are naturally bent and sculpted into meaning things they weren't necessarily meant to mean when they first originated..... in other words, i see no problem in the word "semite" being used to encumpas all abrahamic faiths, however you would have to show the advantages of doing that before it becomes widely accepted - working on the basis that the most widely held definition of a word at any time is the most correct one, because of the shared understanding of said word.

i can see confusion as a disadvantage of changing the definition of the word "semite", ie, "anti-semite" is a term being used in the middle east at the moment, to change the meaning of the word semite at the moment would cause confusion in the middle of an intense diplomatic situation... for me to accept the word "semite" as refering to all abrahamic faiths, you would need to show how the benefits outweigh the consequences, consequences like my example above, though i think others will hav ether objections.

did my rambling make any sense?

Yes! I learn something new every day: From the etymology dictionary:-
Semite 1847, "Jew, Arab, Assyrian, Aramæan," from Mod.L. Semita, from L.L. Sem "Shem," one of the three sons of Noah (Gen. x:21-30), regarded as the ancestor of the Semites (in the days when anthropology was still bound by the Bible), from Heb. Shem. Semitic (1813 of languages, 1826 of persons) is probably from Ger. semitisch (first used by Ger. historian August Schlözer, 1781), denoting the language group that includes Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic, Assyrian, etc. In recent use often with the specific sense "Jewish," but not historically so limited. anti-Semitism 1881, from Ger. Antisemitismus, first used by Wilhelm Marr in 1880, from anti- + Semite (q.v.). Not etymologically restricted to anti-Jewish theories, actions or policies, but almost always used in this sense. Those who object to the inaccuracy of the term might try H. Adler's Judaeophobia (1882). I never realised the word was so emcompassing; like I said, I guess I learn something new every day.

[Mike182]

Originally Posted by michel

Yes! I learn something new every day: From the etymology dictionary:-
Semite 1847, "Jew, Arab, Assyrian, Aramæan," from Mod.L. Semita, from L.L. Sem "Shem," one of the three sons of Noah (Gen. x:21-30), regarded as the ancestor of the Semites (in the days when anthropology was still bound by the Bible), from Heb. Shem. Semitic (1813 of languages, 1826 of persons) is probably from Ger. semitisch (first used by Ger. historian August Schlözer, 1781), denoting the language group that includes Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic, Assyrian, etc. In recent use often with the specific sense "Jewish," but not historically so limited. anti-Semitism 1881, from Ger. Antisemitismus, first used by Wilhelm Marr in 1880, from anti- + Semite (q.v.). Not etymologically restricted to anti-Jewish theories, actions or policies, but almost always used in this sense. Those who object to the inaccuracy of the term might try H. Adler's Judaeophobia (1882). I never realised the word was so emcompassing; like I said, I guess I learn something new every day.

i guess the meaning of the word is subject to its context

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by Daniyal

I honestly do think that there is a problem using the word 'semite' only to refer to Jewish people. I think that both Muslims and Christians deserve the same title as 'semite' too.

I personally know someone who actually uses the term "anti-semite" for things Anti-Islamic and I think it is a good thing, since using the term semite could actually do alot to bring the three Abrahamic faiths together.


Your thoughts?

i think there is a problem when people try to confuse a term for the purposes of semantics in order that they can get away with saying things which are purposely aimed at defacing, dehumanizing, and reinforcing anti-jewish stereotypes.

antisemitism by definition has always meant hating jews...only recently has a self-serving fabrication that it means anything other than that emerged in the arab-muslim community.

and how universalizing, in someway, the term "antisemitism" is going to help the 3 abrahamic faiths makes no sense as there is a large segment of the Muslim, Jewish, and Christian populations which are, in fact, not of semitic ethnic orgins...
Take Sub-saharan black muslims, for example. Are they of the same ethnic origin as a muslim from turkey or saudi arabia or pakistan?

[angellous_evangellous]

Some Arabs who wish to destroy Israel have pointed out that they too are Semetic and therefore they are not anti-Semetic in their persistent hatred of the Jewish people and the Jewish state. For this reason, I often clarify exactly what I mean by anti-Semetism, even though its usage in English has a long tradition of more specifically meaning anti-Jewish.

From the mighty wiki, may it stand forever:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs_and_anti-Semitism
"Some argue that Arabs cannot be anti-Semitic because, they, themselves are Semites. However, Arab discrimination and hostility towards Jews is common regardless of the semantics, thus a better term for this would be "misojudaism" or Judenhass, hatred of Jews. The term "anti-Semite" was coined in Germany in 1879 by Wilhelm Marrih to refer to the anti-Jewish manifestations of the period and to give Jew-hatred a more scientific sounding name."

[Daniyal]

Originally Posted by jewscout

i think there is a problem when people try to confuse a term for the purposes of semantics in order that they can get away with saying things which are purposely aimed at defacing, dehumanizing, and reinforcing anti-jewish stereotypes.

antisemitism by definition has always meant hating jews...only recently has a self-serving fabrication that it means anything other than that emerged in the arab-muslim community.

and how universalizing, in someway, the term "antisemitism" is going to help the 3 abrahamic faiths makes no sense as there is a large segment of the Muslim, Jewish, and Christian populations which are, in fact, not of semitic ethnic orgins...
Take Sub-saharan black muslims, for example. Are they of the same ethnic origin as a muslim from turkey or saudi arabia or pakistan?

What about a Russian Jews and a Spanish Jews? Are they still classified as 'semite' even though they themselves don't have semitic ethnic origins?

With respect.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by Daniyal

I honestly do think that there is a problem using the word 'semite' only to refer to Jewish people.

Of course you do ...

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by Daniyal

What about a Russian Jews and a Spanish Jews? Are they still classified as 'semite' even though they themselves don't have semitic ethnic origins?

With respect.

ummmm that's my point...

and how universalizing, in someway, the term "antisemitism" is going to help the 3 abrahamic faiths makes no sense as there is a large segment of the Muslim, Jewish, and Christian populations which are, in fact, not of semitic ethnic orgins...